What is the max rest time (days) indicated for stable continuous progression? What is the max rest time (days) indicated for stable continuous progression?

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Thread: What is the max rest time (days) indicated for stable continuous progression?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
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    3

    Default What is the max rest time (days) indicated for stable continuous progression?

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    Thanks in advance for your time. FYI I own Practical Programming, will read it through when have more time, but I've skimmed the relevant sections to this question.

    I know there's variation for individuals but in general with the Starting Strength training protocol and it's level of stress on body and muscles, I know that one workout each 48 hours (i.e. a full rest day between workouts) is generally suggested to be enough time for recovery sufficiently to restress the body. That is, 48hrs is the MIN time recommended, with an additional 72 hour weekend rest once/week. I notice my body doesn't recover as fast. I eat, sleep and drink as much water as I can but I notice a general stiffness*, overall body and mind fatigue and deep thirst, in ways that are unique and consistent to the stimulus I get with starting strength. That is this and only this type of program produces this outcome. That obviously means the program works from the stimulate point of view (and I feel no particular challenge in the workout itself), but it does seem to challenge my recovery capacity and ability to function best in life on other tasks. I'm 38, 6'3 and 210 lbs.

    So my question is if 1 day between workouts are the MIN for progression, what is the MAX rest recommended that will not result in loss of hard won gains? In other words, what's the buffer window agreed to be? If one can lift before this MAX point occurs, one can theoretically keep growing as in the fast track, just at a slower pace. Is it 4 days, 8 days or what, and would it vary for beginner, intermediate or advanced?

    I know it's not a fixed magic number you can quote and I don't want to stretch it to the MAX. I actually want the MIN time optimal for ME, so as not to get stiff, sore, exhausted, etc. So for instance, right now I moved from taking one day between as the program suggested, which I've done for a while**, and now just started to take 2 days between lifts. I'll see how that goes, but I suspect I might even do better with 3 days in between (and I'm trying to eat, sleep and drink appropriately, and yet still live life and work).

    This could be a better approach for busy people as well, though that's not my primary motivation. BTW it would also be useful to know for people going on trips or when facilities are otherwise unavailable, for instance this Christmas or COVID. Will your muscles start wasting after 5 days of no work, 10 days, etc? What does the data say***?



    *general stiffness is interesting and frustrating. Maybe it's DOMS. It creates feelings of restlessness, makes it hard to stand or sit still, and is correlated with headaches and migraines. I don't feel any pain in my muscles per se, but when I press it with fingers or sharp object, I can feel their tightness and sharpness and soreness.

    **I did SS for several months and got up to two and a half plates on squat. Powered through these same recovery issues I'm going through now, lots of migraines, etc but was pretty consistent in my training. Then I had to take a long break and getting back into it has always been in back of my mind. Started back up again, trying to get more knowledge and do it even more by the book, but I don't want to deal with fatigue more than necessary. I want gains and growth but I'm not in a rush, so I'll pad the recovery days, take a slower path. Not a workout issue, I'm fine in gym under bar. It's a a post workout thing, DOMS, headaches, fatigue, and restlessness is the worst.

    ***I was just on the road for a full week with no access to a gym and so I did absolutely no training, and even under-ate, yet when I got back I was able to do 10 full pullups straight out, whereas before I'd plateaued at 8. I know this is a basic stimulus-recovery process, but I had assumed this length of time would have set me back to 6 or 7 or even 5. Maybe taking more time will benefit me in two ways- an easier path and more free time to do other things? I used to love going to the gym as it was stress relieving and fun but I'm a busier person now, so giving myself more time between sessions will also help whet my appetite as well as recovery my body. Why even train if you're body is not 100 percent recovered but 0% percent wasted back, if that is possible, and if you are not training for competitions or in a hurry?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,560

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    It depends.

    I have a client who works for eights days as a pilot and then comes back to train. He is still making "weekly" progress as an intermediate when he's back.

    I would say anything more than three days of rest and you're going to run into issues that must be accounted for.

    But these questions are really "how do I do the program without doing the program?" I can't remember where it is, but there's a video about that exact topic. That might help you clarify some of these questions.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Honestly it sounds like you've got something else going on, my mind went straight to electrolyte deficiency reading your symptoms, particularly potassium. Sometimes people drink do much water that they "dilute" their electrolytes. You could get a panel run by a doc.
    Try an electrolyte drink that has an actually decent %DV of sodium, potassium, magnesium. Most are only like 1%, it's a pet peeve of mine that gatorade isn't even a useful amount of sodium let alone the rest. I take Redmond Re-Lyte (1000mg sodium / 500mg potassium) plus a magnesium glycinate supplement before bed. I also eat an avocado a day for more potassium.
    I mix unflavored BCAAs into my electrolytes as a pre-workout and find the BCAAs help a lot with next day soreness.

    Or, conversely, are you starting any pre-workout supplements when you lift that have lots of "stuff" in them that might trigger the restless feelings? It kind of sounds like when you're first adjusting to creatine / caffeine and whatever the stuff is in c4 that makes your face itch.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    2,137

    Default

    4 days is the max I can go without squatting or I will regress. I also need to bench/press in some fashion twice a week or I will also regress. I can go up to two weeks off from deadlifts and do not regress.

    I would read up on the conjugate method if I were you because with a sporadic schedule its pretty much the only way you can train.

    Andy Baker has a lot of info out on this method.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,560

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    gear,
    Can you give some basic stats? Height, age, weight, sex? Lift stats?

    How did you train before starting LP?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    59

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by gear View Post
    Thanks in advance for your time. FYI I own Practical Programming, will read it through when have more time, but I've skimmed the relevant sections to this question.

    I know there's variation for individuals but in general with the Starting Strength training protocol and it's level of stress on body and muscles, I know that one workout each 48 hours (i.e. a full rest day between workouts) is generally suggested to be enough time for recovery sufficiently to restress the body. That is, 48hrs is the MIN time recommended, with an additional 72 hour weekend rest once/week. I notice my body doesn't recover as fast. I eat, sleep and drink as much water as I can but I notice a general stiffness*, overall body and mind fatigue and deep thirst, in ways that are unique and consistent to the stimulus I get with starting strength. That is this and only this type of program produces this outcome. That obviously means the program works from the stimulate point of view (and I feel no particular challenge in the workout itself), but it does seem to challenge my recovery capacity and ability to function best in life on other tasks. I'm 38, 6'3 and 210 lbs.

    So my question is if 1 day between workouts are the MIN for progression, what is the MAX rest recommended that will not result in loss of hard won gains? In other words, what's the buffer window agreed to be? If one can lift before this MAX point occurs, one can theoretically keep growing as in the fast track, just at a slower pace. Is it 4 days, 8 days or what, and would it vary for beginner, intermediate or advanced?

    I know it's not a fixed magic number you can quote and I don't want to stretch it to the MAX. I actually want the MIN time optimal for ME, so as not to get stiff, sore, exhausted, etc. So for instance, right now I moved from taking one day between as the program suggested, which I've done for a while**, and now just started to take 2 days between lifts. I'll see how that goes, but I suspect I might even do better with 3 days in between (and I'm trying to eat, sleep and drink appropriately, and yet still live life and work).

    This could be a better approach for busy people as well, though that's not my primary motivation. BTW it would also be useful to know for people going on trips or when facilities are otherwise unavailable, for instance this Christmas or COVID. Will your muscles start wasting after 5 days of no work, 10 days, etc? What does the data say***?



    *general stiffness is interesting and frustrating. Maybe it's DOMS. It creates feelings of restlessness, makes it hard to stand or sit still, and is correlated with headaches and migraines. I don't feel any pain in my muscles per se, but when I press it with fingers or sharp object, I can feel their tightness and sharpness and soreness.

    **I did SS for several months and got up to two and a half plates on squat. Powered through these same recovery issues I'm going through now, lots of migraines, etc but was pretty consistent in my training. Then I had to take a long break and getting back into it has always been in back of my mind. Started back up again, trying to get more knowledge and do it even more by the book, but I don't want to deal with fatigue more than necessary. I want gains and growth but I'm not in a rush, so I'll pad the recovery days, take a slower path. Not a workout issue, I'm fine in gym under bar. It's a a post workout thing, DOMS, headaches, fatigue, and restlessness is the worst.

    ***I was just on the road for a full week with no access to a gym and so I did absolutely no training, and even under-ate, yet when I got back I was able to do 10 full pullups straight out, whereas before I'd plateaued at 8. I know this is a basic stimulus-recovery process, but I had assumed this length of time would have set me back to 6 or 7 or even 5. Maybe taking more time will benefit me in two ways- an easier path and more free time to do other things? I used to love going to the gym as it was stress relieving and fun but I'm a busier person now, so giving myself more time between sessions will also help whet my appetite as well as recovery my body. Why even train if you're body is not 100 percent recovered but 0% percent wasted back, if that is possible, and if you are not training for competitions or in a hurry?
    You should aim for your weight to be 270. You don’t have enough muscle mass to recover properly.

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