Finally

[David Sanders]

So, I finally let common sense prevail. I recognized that I'm 46 years old, I have to do Army PT every day (including weekly ruck marches), my sleep schedule is inconsistent at best due to unpredictable Army work hours and that I need to listen to my body and my mind. For the last couple of years I have been in and out of NLP insisting on a M, W, F schedule. I never looked forward to it and would eventually stagnate way below where I should and would just give up. A few weeks ago I decided to give it a go one more time and this time I decided on a Tuesday and Saturday routine to accommodate for 6-12 mile ruck march every Thursday. I am back in PR territory again. I am actually looking forward to the workouts and not dreading them and recovery is plenty.

[James Rodgers]

Ruck marches are so stupid, they are nothing but knee and back injury generators and are not relevant for mechanized armies. They're popular because leaders are afraid to be different and they have not sat down to think hard about training and what to train for.

Here's the dirty secret: if a military formation has to derp around on foot to maneuver somewhere in a modern military context the battle is over because they have lost all of their heavy equipment. Therefore they should stop using a training method that causes a bunch of injuries for no tangible payoff in order to prepare for a scenario where you're about to get mopped up anyway.

[J. Killmond]

While it certainly is true that ruck marching is stupid, not relevant for modern armies and an injury generator, U.S. military leaders don't have much latitude to be different, whether they are afraid or not, and I doubt the Canadian military is a haven for free-thinkers!

On one occasion of fond memory, the brigade's officers were gathered by the colonel for a special day of "Spartan Lifestyle" activities, including an actual ruck run.

The mentality behind that ruck run is not going away, and ruck marching has a long tradition in the Army. (Whether stupidity, irrelevance and generating avoidable injuries are also long traditions in the Army, I decline to address out of respect to the efforts of those like Capt. Rodgers who are in current service.)

75 years ago, the Expert Infantryman Badge was created, and it has required a ruck march since the beginning:

Fort Benning | Expert Infantryman Badge

By the way, 35 lb. is the required standard for ruck sacks, which is why, as a Marine and not an Army officer, Coach Broggi does not understand the importance of 35-lb. plates, which can be conveniently wired to the frame of ruck sack for ease of use!

How to Make Your Own 35-lb Plate | Grant Broggi

[David Sanders]

We do a 25 miler once or twice a year to commemorate my unit's actions during the Boxer Rebellion in China.

[J. Killmond]

Even if your unit regularly went 12 miles, a 25-miler is a big effort, probably 10 hours. A no-win situation for commanders, given how predictably the unit will "perform." Privates being what privates are, from a 30-man platoon, I would expect at least 3-4 fallouts, including some bad blistering, and a heat injury case during the warmer months. If only the leaders had (1) maintained a better level of fitness in the unit, (2) done more foot checks, (3) enforced water discipline better, (4) motivated their troops more, etc. I say, if only idiots hadn't made us do a pointless 25-mile road march!

[Nockian]

Ruck marches are so stupid, they are nothing but knee and back injury generators and are not relevant for mechanized armies. They're popular because leaders are afraid to be different and they have not sat down to think hard about training and what to train for.

Here's the dirty secret: if a military formation has to derp around on foot to maneuver somewhere in a modern military context the battle is over because they have lost all of their heavy equipment. Therefore they should stop using a training method that causes a bunch of injuries for no tangible payoff in order to prepare for a scenario where you're about to get mopped up anyway.

Read the battle for the falklands. The British Army was staring defeat in the face if it hadn’t been for a long run on foot. Maybe they do need to run, because the organisation is so lousy they leave no alternative. Maybe these guys have been left in the lurch so often that they know that running will be in their futures ?

[Gerald Boggs]

Even if your unit regularly went 12 miles, a 25-miler is a big effort, probably 10 hours. A no-win situation for commanders, given how predictably the unit will "perform." Privates being what privates are, from a 30-man platoon, I would expect at least 3-4 fallouts, including some bad blistering, and a heat injury case during the warmer months. If only the leaders had (1) maintained a better level of fitness in the unit, (2) done more foot checks, (3) enforced water discipline better, (4) motivated their troops more, etc. I say, if only idiots hadn't made us do a pointless 25-mile road march!

I'll have to provide counter point: Back in the early 80's, in the 2nd of the 504th, 82nd, we did a 12 miler every month and 25 miler every quarter. While I recall plenty of blisters, I don't recall anyone falling out. Of course, in the 82nd, failure was not an option :-)

[James Rodgers]

Read the battle for the falklands. The British Army was staring defeat in the face if it hadn’t been for a long run on foot. Maybe they do need to run, because the organisation is so lousy they leave no alternative. Maybe these guys have been left in the lurch so often that they know that running will be in their futures ?

Here's the dirty secret: if you get your squat and deadlift up nice and big, you can ruck harder, carry more stuff, go further and faster than a weak troopie.

You are confusing performance (the Para's slog across the Falklands) with the training to get troops ready (strength training + anaerobic conditioning). The tactical situation when they had to slog is also a very rare and unusual situation, the vast majority of troop's actual time is spent handling heavy, awkward kit over short distances.

Read the battle for the falklands. The British Army was staring defeat in the face if it hadn’t been for a long run on foot. Maybe they do need to run, because the organisation is so lousy they leave no alternative. Maybe these guys have been left in the lurch so often that they know that running will be in their futures ?

Also, at that point in the campaign the Argentinians were incapable of maneuver so a prolonged foot slog was feasible. Against an opponent with wheels or tracks, troops on foot will get bypassed.

[J. Killmond]

I'll have to provide counter point: Back in the early 80's, in the 2nd of the 504th, 82nd, we did a 12 miler every month and 25 miler every quarter. While I recall plenty of blisters, I don't recall anyone falling out. Of course, in the 82nd, failure was not an option :-)

I forgot that you had previously mentioned road marching at Fort Bragg. Seems a little bold to claim that nobody ever fell out of a march that you were on, but maybe young soldiers never got hung over and dehydrated back in the old "brown boot" Army. My fault anyway for starting the there-I-was stories.

That said, I looked up the jump exercise for Gallant Eagle 1982 after you mentioned it, and I'm sorry you went through that.

[Nockian]

Here's the dirty secret: if you get your squat and deadlift up nice and big, you can ruck harder, carry more stuff, go further and faster than a weak troopie.

You are confusing performance (the Para's slog across the Falklands) with the training to get troops ready (strength training + anaerobic conditioning). The tactical situation when they had to slog is also a very rare and unusual situation, the vast majority of troop's actual time is spent handling heavy, awkward kit over short distances.



Also, at that point in the campaign the Argentinians were incapable of maneuver so a prolonged foot slog was feasible. Against an opponent with wheels or tracks, troops on foot will get bypassed.

Agreed you get strong with squats, but I can see why they are required to run with a ruck as part of consistent training, because things can and do break down and that means that troops will be called on to do the extraordinary at some point and therefore it’s surely best that they have some confidence they can run if they are called upon to do so.

That’s why I said I’m not advocating rucking as being the majority of the training, but it seems to me at least, that some time is spent on a regular basis doing so.