Time Between Reps | Andrew Lewis Time Between Reps | Andrew Lewis - Page 2

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Thread: Time Between Reps | Andrew Lewis

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    There is a stretch reflex in the press, but not in the typical way like the other lifts. In the bench, the stretch reflex is in the muscles that both lower and raise the bar. In the press, the stretch reflex is in the hips created by the hip movement.

    If you want to use the stretch reflex in the strict press, you just don't stop at the bottom, but this doesn't work as well as the way we do it in the press we teach.

    Yeah, don't rush your presses if you're getting loose and the technique suffers.



    Why would using the stretch reflex reduce the stress of the movement?

    thanks Andrew, makes sense. Yeah i'm still using strict press, just cant get 2.0 working yet. i'm getting some SS coaching in the new year, will hopefully sort it. I guess i was thinking pressing from a dead stop is harder therefore more stressful but I think what you and Rip are saying is utilising the stretch reflex allows more weight to be pressed, more weight = more stress ?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
    thanks Andrew, makes sense. Yeah i'm still using strict press, just cant get 2.0 working yet. i'm getting some SS coaching in the new year, will hopefully sort it.
    Send me an email: alewis@startingstrengthgyms.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
    t I guess i was thinking pressing from a dead stop is harder therefore more stressful but I think what you and Rip are saying is utilising the stretch reflex allows more weight to be pressed, more weight = more stress ?
    That's correct. Keep in mind that harder does not always mean better. Pressing while a boxer uses your scrotum as a speed bag is a lot harder, but that doesn't mean it's productive.

    Same for the belt. Pressing without a belt is harder, but that doesn't make it a better way to train.
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  3. #13

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    Not quite, panda. The stretch reflex allows more weight to be lifted (you instantly become stronger), the rep at the same weight becomes easier, so you incur less stress. You are still going to add the appropriate amount of weight to the bar each session so that weight becomes easier to lift because you are now using a stretch reflex which has made the lift more efficient and less stressful. You're only going to incur more stress if you decide to add a bunch more weight automatically because you are now using your hips. Similarly a push press at 135 lbs is less stressful than a press at 135 lbs, and a jerk at 135 lbs is less stressful than a push press, etc.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    Not quite, panda. The stretch reflex allows more weight to be lifted (you instantly become stronger), the rep at the same weight becomes easier, so you incur less stress
    This is wrong. The stretch reflex allows your muscles to produce more force. A press (or squat) with a stretch reflex allows you to lift heavier weights under otherwise identical conditions which, in turns, produces more stress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    This You are still going to add the appropriate amount of weight to the bar each session so that weight becomes easier to lift because you are now using a stretch reflex which has made the lift more efficient and less stressful.
    The stretch reflex does not make the lift more efficient. It makes the lifter more effective. They are two different things.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    This is wrong. The stretch reflex allows your muscles to produce more force. A press (or squat) with a stretch reflex allows you to lift heavier weights under otherwise identical conditions which, in turns, produces more stress.



    The stretch reflex does not make the lift more efficient. It makes the lifter more effective. They are two different things.
    "At heavier weights" would indicate non-identical conditions. The only variable in the SSLP is load given the exercise selection, sets, and reps are constant. So if you are comparing doing lift A and lift B at different weights, you are comparing apples to oranges. If the lifter learns how to use a stretch reflex and immediately decides to bump their press weight up to reflect what they can now lift, then yes, that COULD create more systemic stress. But on the SSLP that should not happen, therefore learning the stretch reflex makes the press less stressful than the strict press would've been.

    And yes, it makes the lift more efficient. The energy that goes into putting 185 lbs overhead is much less if you use your hips than if you don't use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    This is wrong. The stretch reflex allows your muscles to produce more force. A press (or squat) with a stretch reflex allows you to lift heavier weights under otherwise identical conditions which, in turns, produces more stress.



    The stretch reflex does not make the lift more efficient. It makes the lifter more effective. They are two different things.
    We're talking about the same weight here, buddy. If the lifter is on the SSLP, they will be increasing the weight at the same pace if they use a stretch reflex or don't. Using momentum from your hips makes the lift much more efficient, and at the same weight will be much easier to lift.
    Last edited by AndrewLewis; 12-08-2021 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Consolidated posts

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    "At heavier weights" would indicate non-identical conditions. .
    That's why I said "otherwise identical" not just "identical."





    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    If the lifter learns how to use a stretch reflex and immediately decides to bump their press weight up to reflect what they can now lift, then yes, that COULD create more systemic stress.
    That's the whole point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    The energy that goes into putting 185 lbs overhead is much less if you use your hips than if you don't use them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    We're talking about the same weight here, buddy. If the lifter is on the SSLP, they will be increasing the weight at the same pace if they use a stretch reflex or don't. Using momentum from your hips makes the lift much more efficient
    Are you referring to using the hips at all? Or using the hips with the stretch reflex?

    Because I'm thinking of this in terms of using the hips in both scenarios but one with the stretch reflex and one without.

    The source of the effectiveness (and efficiency) of the use of the hips comes from the change in bar path, the use of the stretch reflex, and added muscle mass.
    Last edited by AndrewLewis; 12-08-2021 at 10:00 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post

    And yes, it makes the lift more efficient. The energy that goes into putting 185 lbs overhead is much less if you use your hips than if you don't use them.
    Misunderstanding of basic physics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Overfed and Undertrained View Post
    We're talking about the same weight here, buddy. If the lifter is on the SSLP, they will be increasing the weight at the same pace if they use a stretch reflex or don't.
    Misunderstanding of basic training principals: What can be progressed for longer -- the deadlift or a wrist curl? The press 2.0 (and double layback over time), can be progressed for longer, with greater jumps, than a strict press. It will not be the same weight for long.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by asm44 View Post
    Misunderstanding of basic physics.



    Misunderstanding of basic training principals: What can be progressed for longer -- the deadlift or a wrist curl? The press 2.0 (and double layback over time), can be progressed for longer, with greater jumps, than a strict press. It will not be the same weight for long.
    I will rephrase this so you understand my point. If a lifter is on an LP, and they learn how to perform a stretch reflex on the press, and they make no change to weight progression, the lift will become less stressful for them than it otherwise would have been. Yes, obviously over time it will create greater stress and improved strength outcomes.

    However, please do not believe that higher weights necessarily involve greater stress. A rack pull or power shrug (thank you Mr. Starr) will not tax you to the effect of a heavier deadlift. A trap bar or sumo deadlift will not affect you as much as a conventional deadlift either, in my experience. Better leverages or shorter ROM at an increased weight small enough that don't negate the benefits of those increased leverages/shorter ROM will not always create more training stress than a conventional deadlift or what have you.

  9. #19
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    Glad I read the article and the thread posts! I was breathing wrong on the chinups and pullups, doing so at the bottom and taking out any stretch reflex. I'm surprised I was able to make it to nearly 40 pounds over body weight for 3x5 apparently without a stretch reflex on chins last year, since I was breathing at the bottom. I will definitely try what Rip suggested for a quick breath about half way on the way down.

    On the squat and deadlift I've gotten in the habit of taking two full breathes between reps when the weight is heavy, for consistency and helping keep good form. Prior to this I was just breathing out and taking a big breathe to hold between reps. When the weight gets heavy I'd find that with the 4th and 5th rep in a set of five, it felt like I was having a hard time holding my breath for the full rep and it would mess up my form as I'm trying to rush it, but you can't rush it since it is heavy. Not only that, sometimes with all of this going on, taking one breathe for beginning reps and two towards the end, I'd lose count of the reps and do sometimes do 4 reps or 6 reps, both of which are bad. I'd catch it in the video afterwards, but be pissed since neither is good. Especially accidently doing 6 on the deadlift and then messing up the next few sessions. Going to two breathes between reps on the squat and deadlift seems to be helpful for consistency, but it also helps when the weight gets heavy in terms of giving you 5 or 6 seconds to get collect your self and have a better chance to hit that last hard rep. In fact, if the 4th rep is a real grind, like on the deadlift if you get the shaky knees for example, then going to a third breath to recollect yourself and get your shit together for grinding out the last rep has seemed helpful to me.

  10. #20
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    I've had the opposite experience with deadlifts. The longer I fuck around the more likely I am to miss my 5th rep, so I breathe, set my back, and go. I can catch my breath after the set.

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