Conditioning for Novices | Mark Rippetoe Conditioning for Novices | Mark Rippetoe - Page 2

starting strength gym
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37

Thread: Conditioning for Novices | Mark Rippetoe

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    184

    Default

    • starting strength seminar august 2022
    • starting strength seminar october 2022
    • starting strength seminar december 2022
    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I'd condense it into one sentence as follows:

    With the aim of athletic competition in mind, how should you best train for strength and endurance such that the two kinds of training interfere with each other as little as possible and you obtain maximal value from each?
    I'll bite.
    HLM: One on (lift) Two off (no lift)
    Row on the first Off day. I'm not familiar enough with competitive rowing strategy but you might program row workouts into an HLM or HL format also.
    Adjust 1-2 weeks prior to competition so you are fully recovered.

    Disclaimer: I am not a competitive rower or SSC but I kayaked the Indian River Lagoon behind the Kennedy Space Center to target large fish and avoid large gators.
    In my younger days I was a semi competitive cyclist.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    I have a question, what makes you think that doing so much conditioning that it interferes with your NLP is necessary to win your 6/7 minutes competition? Or even 15/20? As Rip said, you already know how to row. Just keep practicing whatever you need to practice, and get stronger in the meantime.
    And this applies to pretty much any sport that is not entirely based on endurance I would imagine (aka marathons).
    Why would you waste time and energy doing HIIT with exercises similar to the movement of the sport instead of using that time and energy to simply get stronger on your NLP and then display that strength in the sport?
    If I may, not even the creator of the method who has been posting in this thread takes a position this extreme.

    An endurance event requires a conditioning adaptation beyond what strength training alone can provide in order for you to be competitive. You have to train your cardiovascular system in addition to getting stronger. Strength training alone will make you very quick for one 500m sprint (which takes a good athlete about 90 seconds or less), but you can't continue to rely on it alone in the last 500m of a 2,000m race, when you're well out of the initial glycolitic stage and your untrained energy systems cannot cope with the demands your strength is placing upon them. Your muscles need ATP and your energy systems have to be up to the task of providing it.

    A 2,000m rowing race requires you to push right up against the limits of your endurance and no further. Even in international and Olympic competition there are plenty of examples of elite athletes with exceptionally well-developed endurance who misjudge their capabilities and end up completely 'gassing out' in the final stretch of the race, losing out on a medal in the process. The same goes for kayaking, track cycling, swimming, and so on. If you haven't trained for endurance, you won't stand a chance, even if you can deadlift 800lbs.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    48,790

    Default

    I almost deleted this post, because it is such a stupid mischaracterization of what I said. And I'm not going to link to your homework either. What a dense motherfucker.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I almost deleted this post, because it is such a stupid mischaracterization of what I said. And I'm not going to link to your homework either. What a dense motherfucker.
    I don't know if you're referring to my post or the one I quoted. Just to be clear, I was responding to Francesco, not to you. I know you don't believe anything as silly as 'endurance athletes don't need to do any training which doesn't involve a barbell.'

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I don't know if you're referring to my post or the one I quoted. Just to be clear, I was responding to Francesco, not to you. I know you don't believe anything as silly as 'endurance athletes don't need to do any training which doesn't involve a barbell.'
    Well, now you are misquoting me as well.
    I'll try to be more clear. I don't think a 15 minute rowing event is on the endurance end of the metabolic pathway spectrum, which, for example, fits the criteria of a marathon.
    As Nick and Rip pointed out in the last podcast about the 2 factor model, most activities fall closer to the strength extreme of the spectrum.
    I did not say you should only lift barbells.
    I said that your rowing training is probably already giving you the adaptations you need to keep rowing for 15 minutes, whereas your strength training can make every row easier to do by making you stronger overall.
    You seem to be making this more complicated than it needs to be and also proving my point with this statement:

    "Even in international and Olympic competition there are plenty of examples of elite athletes with exceptionally well-developed endurance who misjudge their capabilities and end up completely 'gassing out' in the final stretch of the race"


    If Olympic level rowers train for exceptional endurance, and still lose, what makes you think you should try to train for endurance?
    What is the average deadlift of an olympic or international rower? How much time do they dedicate to getting stronger with barbells vs practicing and endurance?
    These are not rethorical questions. Same goes for my first question:

    What makes you think that training endurance to a point where it interferes with your NLP is necessary to win a 6/7 minutes race?

    I did not say you shouldn't train for endurance, I'm suggesting you shouldn't do it to the point you can't get stronger anymore, because a 7' or even a 15' race, probably does not require this.

    You seem to be wanting to replace your strength training with HIIT, am I correct?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Garage of GainzZz
    Posts
    2,829

    Default

    Our own Andy Baker has done several podcasts recently about training athletes; I recommend you listen to them MVM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    710

    Default

    Satch, I'd like to listen to these... What's the name of the podcast for this? Would love to listen to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satch12879 View Post
    Our own Andy Baker has done several podcasts recently about training athletes; I recommend you listen to them MVM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    136

    Default

    I competed in two sports in college and lifted on my own. My children were college athletes who lifted with their teams. I know several people who rowed for the US including an Olympic medalist.

    None of this is complicated. In a single sentence, Mark provided all of the information a new lifter needs while competing in another sport. "Practice your sport, and train for strength on as close a schedule to the novice model as you can hold." Since one has the stress of both physical activities which affect recovery, eating a lot of food and getting plenty of sleep is even more important than it would be if you were only lifting. Also, a slight reduction in intensity while training for your primary sport on lifting days will make your life easier.

    At the top end of two different sports, it gets tricker but that is something you can deal with if you get there.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpalios View Post
    Satch, I'd like to listen to these... What's the name of the podcast for this? Would love to listen to them.
    This is part 1. There are 3.
    Baker Barbell Podcast - #6 - Barbell Training for Athletes

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    74

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    Your rowing training is probably already giving you the adaptations you need to keep rowing for 15 minutes
    But I didn't tell you how much rowing training I was doing. If I did one session in the boat all year before the Olympic final do you think I would win it? This is the entire basis for my posts in this thread. We already know I need barbell training to get strong. I also need to develop a lot of endurance. How? When? And how much? There's a lot to cover here, pertaining to such things as energy systems, ATP regeneration, competition between adaptations, recovery factors, programming and workout scheduling, lactate tolerance, VO2 max, bodyweight, and so on. If strength training could be summed up in a couple curt of forum posts as 'squat, press, bench press, and deadlift every 2-3 days, lift a little bit more each time and eat a lot of food' then there'd be no need for two books on it. Obviously there's more to say. And there's more to be said on this topic as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    If Olympic level rowers train for exceptional endurance, and still lose, what makes you think you should try to train for endurance?
    Is this a troll? If not it's probably one of the worst things I've seen written on the forum in years.

    You seem to be wanting to replace your strength training with HIIT, am I correct?
    You are not correct. Reading comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost and Found View Post
    Thanks very much for posting this. They look like they might be the sort of material I was talking about.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •