starting strength gym
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 37 of 37

Thread: Conditioning for Novices | Mark Rippetoe

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    107

    Default

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Is it not obvious that for sports with an endurance base so high that it interferes with strength training, the strength component is less critical, and can be obtained in the training schedule at a lower level of both intensity (%1RM) and frequency (2x/week instead of 3)? Like marathon training, we don't anticipate turning these people into lifters. I've made this clear many times.
    That's fine, but you've written two invaluable books describing and explaining efficient strength training in painstaking detail from first principles. Many athletes could benefit enormously from this knowledge even if they're not going to become 'lifters.' They could benefit even more if someone who knows how strength training should be done could also offer an informed and detailed view as to how to best combine it with the endurance training necessary to compete in certain sports. Otherwise everyone, including me, is making it up as we go along. We can't pretend that just getting the varsity rowing team to start low-bar squatting, pressing, and deadlifting for heavy sets of five on a regular basis is enough, because there are many more questions to answer, and their training needs to be optimised to some extent.

    I think this is the topic, more than any other, on which Starting Strength has the potential to add value which it hasn't added yet because it doesn't talk about it (or not enough). Yes, it's specific, and pertains to a relatively small population, but so does all the material on programming for advanced lifters which you thought was worth writing. Dr Sullivan's stuff is helpful but quite theoretical. Bill Starr's book is also great, but it's specific to football, and football isn't an endurance sport.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    That's fine, but you've written two invaluable books describing and explaining efficient strength training in painstaking detail from first principles. Many athletes could benefit enormously from this knowledge even if they're not going to become 'lifters.' They could benefit even more if someone who knows how strength training should be done could also offer an informed and detailed view as to how to best combine it with the endurance training necessary to compete in certain sports. Otherwise everyone, including me, is making it up as we go along. We can't pretend that just getting the varsity rowing team to start low-bar squatting, pressing, and deadlifting for heavy sets of five on a regular basis is enough, because there are many more questions to answer, and their training needs to be optimised to some extent.
    Wasn’t this already more or less answered by this post?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Practice your sport, and train for strength on as close a schedule to the novice model as you can hold.
    Unless I’m missing something, the only major variable at play here is a reduced recovery capacity due to all of the additional endurance training. So you stick to the NLP model as closely as possible, and modify according to the recovery realities of the athletes as it becomes necessary. Whether this means reducing to 2x per week, or artificially introducing intermediate programming ideas to facilitate week-long recovery windows without detraining in the meantime, etc.

    As said, you’re not making them lifters; it isn’t worth the time and effort. The point is to make the endurance athlete stronger by snatching up the easily-available novice gains. To spend 6-9 months getting their deadlift up to 405. That’s all.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    107

    Default

    I want to add one more thing to this thread, which is an anecdote from my own training. This anecdote suggests that for some trainees, under some conditions, hard conditioning work may actually be a net boon during an NLP rather than an interference. I've gone through an NLP with no conditioning as well as doing one whilst rowing after a long layoff. I have noticed that HIIT, in particular sprints on the rowing machine, have benefited my ability to get through a heavy set of deadlifts. Unlike the other lifts where I have only experienced failure due to straightforward weakness, I have failed the fifth rep of a set of deadlifts several times due to exhaustion - completely 'gassing out' after the fourth rep. I've never 'gassed out' in this way during a set of squats - it's something particular to the deadlift for me.

    Whilst I do not think that HIIT makes me any stronger, I have noticed that when I do HIIT on the rowing machine this problem goes away. I still feel fatigued during the pause between the fourth and fifth deadlift rep, but it's much more of the usual muscular fatigue experienced with every other lift, not the systemic, high-lactate 'gassing out' kind of fatigue (which I'm hinting is cardiovascular in nature). As a result I fail far fewer sets and therefore actually make quicker progress than I did without doing HIIT. At the same time, I haven't noticed HIIT slowing or stalling my linear progression, although I should make it clear that I avoid doing it on the same day or the day before my heavy deadlift workouts.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    53,562

    Default

    Got it, thanks.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    348

    Default

    A few months ago, when I was "gassing out" during the deadlift 4th and 5th rep, I sent my videos of the set to SSC Hayden, who at the time I was paying for form critiques. He promptly pointed out that I was spending way too much time fidgeting on the setup between reps - setting and unsetting my back, taking breaths, and generally making a fool of myself with wasted movement.

    The solution was to walk up, quickly follow the setup process, take one good breath, squeeze, and pull. Repeat it - get set and take a breath, pull. If the set takes double the amount of time it should because your set up is inefficient, you end up out of breath before it's done. Should be like a machine - setup, take valsalva/squeeze back, then pull. Stop taking 6 breathes between each pull. Release your breath at the bottom, take one good one, and go.

    With that said, I've noticed that when I had a little prowler conditioning in me, I got my breath back faster inbetween sets of squats.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I want to add one more thing to this thread, which is an anecdote from my own training. This anecdote suggests that for some trainees, under some conditions, hard conditioning work may actually be a net boon during an NLP rather than an interference. I've gone through an NLP with no conditioning as well as doing one whilst rowing after a long layoff. I have noticed that HIIT, in particular sprints on the rowing machine, have benefited my ability to get through a heavy set of deadlifts. Unlike the other lifts where I have only experienced failure due to straightforward weakness, I have failed the fifth rep of a set of deadlifts several times due to exhaustion - completely 'gassing out' after the fourth rep. I've never 'gassed out' in this way during a set of squats - it's something particular to the deadlift for me.

    Whilst I do not think that HIIT makes me any stronger, I have noticed that when I do HIIT on the rowing machine this problem goes away. I still feel fatigued during the pause between the fourth and fifth deadlift rep, but it's much more of the usual muscular fatigue experienced with every other lift, not the systemic, high-lactate 'gassing out' kind of fatigue (which I'm hinting is cardiovascular in nature). As a result I fail far fewer sets and therefore actually make quicker progress than I did without doing HIIT. At the same time, I haven't noticed HIIT slowing or stalling my linear progression, although I should make it clear that I avoid doing it on the same day or the day before my heavy deadlift workouts.
    On the other hand, at least for us older guys, I’ve discovered that there’s a finite capacity for recovery - a total recovery capacity.

    Over the past months, I’ve been working on my presses, with no squatting or deadlifting (need to sort out an impingement).

    I’ve made faster progress on those than before, when squatting and deadlifting heavy. My OHP is near an all-time high (big for me).

    It wasn’t a single-variable experiment, but I’m still going to guess that the absence of heavy squats and deadlifts left more recovery capacity for the presses. And I’d further guess that this effect scales, both up and down, with the quality of technique, nutrition, and sleep.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Winter Springs, FL
    Posts
    159

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by VNV View Post
    On the other hand, at least for us older guys, I’ve discovered that there’s a finite capacity for recovery - a total recovery capacity.

    Over the past months, I’ve been working on my presses, with no squatting or deadlifting (need to sort out an impingement).

    I’ve made faster progress on those than before, when squatting and deadlifting heavy. My OHP is near an all-time high (big for me).

    It wasn’t a single-variable experiment, but I’m still going to guess that the absence of heavy squats and deadlifts left more recovery capacity for the presses. And I’d further guess that this effect scales, both up and down, with the quality of technique, nutrition, and sleep.
    There are advanced lifters (not me) who attempt to exploit this phenomenon. Whether or not they need to do so is a subject for those more competent than me. But many very strong people will attempt to find a "maintenance volume" for one lift (they don't leave it out, just do less) so that they have the recovery capacity to progress another lift.

    This seems a reasonable strategy and consistent with what we know if one is recovery-limited. Beginners, however, are not recovery-limited unless they are involved in strenuous activities outside of the gym (like being a competitive runner or rower)

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •