Deadlift Grip Failing

[JD Thomason]

Yes. Bottom Line, do not allow a grip problem to stop your progress on the DL. I let this happen for far too long and ended up with a squat way ahead of my Deadlift. After some good coaching, I finally went to an opposed grip over 400lbs and boom, flying straight up again. 500 is certainly achievable in the next couple of months.

[GioFerrante]

At what weight did it happen for your buddy?

Happened while grappling to him actually. This is enough for me:
PSA: Biceps Tendon Rupture (Mixed Grip Deadlifting) - Exodus Strength

By "fail" what do you mean? Does it actually slip, meaning your fingers holding onto your thumbs?

Yes, exactly. Bar slipped out of hands in the middle of the 4th rep.

The only time I've ever had the hook grip start to fail on me was when I foolishly tried to do it without chalk. I can't speak for everyone, but I have yet to have it fail due to the weight being heavy.

I may be from California, but I am not THIS stupid.

Maybe you're doing it wrong. Photos?

Will post photos after my next workout, but this confuses me. I did 370x5 the previous workout, if the hook was wrong, wouldn't it have not held for this? 375x5 was where it failed, and I obviously sit the grip the same way.

The double-overhand grip is mechanically more inefficient that any other part of the kinetic chain in the deadlift. Therefore it will limit the development of the rest of the KC. That's why we don't allow it to limit our deadlift training.

I was actually thinking about this for intermediate lifters. Most intermediates will train the rack pull and halting DL with heavy ass weights and straps. How do these types of lifters work their grip for the actual deadlift? Just with warm up sets?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I was actually thinking about this for intermediate lifters. Most intermediates will train the rack pull and halting DL with heavy ass weights and straps. How do these types of lifters work their grip for the actual deadlift? Just with warm up sets?

The alternate grip is secure enough that warmups with double-overhand are enough grip work. MOST lifters do not avulse the distal bicep tendon when deadlifting.

Do not ever take Cipro. Please remember this.

[GioFerrante]

The alternate grip is secure enough that warmups with double-overhand are enough grip work. MOST lifters do not avulse the distal bicep tendon when deadlifting.

Do not ever take Cipro. Please remember this.

Jesus fucking christ. Do you really think Cipro is the primary cause?

http://www.imj.ie/wp-content/uploads...on-Rupture.pdf
Biceps tendon rupture associated with ciprofloxacin use for spontaneous bacterial peritonitis prophylaxis | BMJ Case Reports
Biceps tendon rupture associated with ciprofloxacin use for spontaneous bacterial peritonitis prophylaxis - PubMed
Triceps Ruptures After Fluoroquinolone Antibiotics: A Report of 2 Cases - PMC
FDA Warns That Cipro and Similar Antibiotics May Rupture Tendons
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52644021000285

[Huy Huynh]

For sure! Gotta keep building up the grip strength with the warm-ups. Thanks!

Paul Horn did a video on the hook grip and in there he said to hook grip from the first warm up for a few workouts. I did it for 3 deadlifts workouts and the pain was very manageable. Then I switched to double overhand warm ups. Having done the hook only for final warm up on day 1 felt awkward and very painful for me when I first attempted to learn the grip. Hope it went well for you.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Jesus fucking christ. Do you really think Cipro is the primary cause?

No, but as you see it is certainly one of the causes.

[Steven Z]

Most intermediates will train the rack pull and halting DL with heavy ass weights and straps. How do these types of lifters work their grip for the actual deadlift? Just with warm up sets?

I've pulled more than 50lbs over my standard DL max on RPs using alt & hook without much difficulty. I did eventually have to switch from hook to alt near the end. That was my personal preference because I hate straps, but it goes to show that alt/hook grips, correctly performed, should not be the limiting factor.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Happened while grappling to him actually. This is enough for me:
PSA: Biceps Tendon Rupture (Mixed Grip Deadlifting) - Exodus Strength

Are you pulling 655 as this guy? I understand biceps ruptures may happen at those kinds of weights, but they don’t seem very common on your typical 455 pull.

[EdTice]

The double-overhand grip is mechanically more inefficient that any other part of the kinetic chain in the deadlift. Therefore it will limit the development of the rest of the KC. That's why we don't allow it to limit our deadlift training.

Sure. I hope that's well established as otherwise I'm advertently feeding the trolls.

I took the original comment of "Why would hook 'probably' fail? It adapts with everything else" as a deeper question about the reasoning process. If one part of the kinetic chain develops more slowly, three general ideas have been floated.

1. Just keep lifting as the entire kinetic chain will develop in proportion
2. Modify the lift so that the "weak link" doesn't impede progress
3. Try to do assistance/accessory exercises to "bring up" the weak portion.

In reality, we don't really do any one of these, but rather a combination. If we change to a hook grip (or mixed) for our deadlift that's the second item on the list. But continuing to do our warmups with overhand is more along the lines of the first possible solution.

In the Strongest Shall Survive, the late great Bill Starr would have athletes who had trouble racking a power clean do power pulls (high pulls) but still do the warmups as power cleans. Power pull: 135 x 5 (power clean), 175 x 5 (power clean),225x 5,245 x 5, 265 x 5.

In no case is there really a choice between the two, more of a balancing.

And in some cases, we do use assistance/accessory (remedial) exercises to "bring up" weak parts although that tends to be more when those weakness exist post-injury or due to a systematic problem in prior training. I believe the ruling on this is that it "tends to be a bit overblown" although again I think that Bill Starr did recommend this sometimes for intermediate/advanced lifters who developed sticking points.

This is of course why people should just DTFP as most of this stuff has already been thought about.

I hope I helped the previous commenter and not just muddied the waters.

[GioFerrante]

Are you pulling 655 as this guy? I understand biceps ruptures may happen at those kinds of weights, but they don’t seem very common on your typical 455 pull.

No 380x5. I'm not sure what my 1 rm is right now because there's no need to test it.

I'm not sure it's even that big of a deal. This week's pull was 380x5 and switching to straps was going to happen soon regardless. I'll need to make the switch to rack pulls/haltings somewhere in the near future and those require straps. I'll just make sure and get in some occasional heavy work with the hook as well to make sure it holds for a max pull.

Heaviest I've pulled is 405, but I'm shooting to pull 500 asap. 600 would be wonderful but not sure if it's in the cards at 5' 6".

My guess is 400, 500 or 600 all could avulse a bicep tedon. Yes its unlikely, but a lot of injuries are unlikely until they happen. Besides, the hook has always been fine for me when pulling a single rep.