starting strength gym
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 39

Thread: Why You Won't Do the Program | Mark Rippetoe

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,112

    Default Why You Won't Do the Program | Mark Rippetoe

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    Part 1: The Program Is Too Simple

    “There are only 6 exercises! That can't work. Look at all the other exercises being left out, and all the muscles this program ignores.”

    Read article

    Part 2: It's Only Three Days a Week

    I know, you like to train. More correctly, you like to go to the gym. You like the atmosphere, the smell of the place, the people you've come to know, the idea of getting something accomplished. You sense the superiority of the regular members over the lazy slobs that compose the bulk of modern society, and you'd rather be around them than the creatures at Walmart.

    Read article

    Part 3: Failure to Appreciate the Novice Effect

    ​When you first start training correctly – doing the program as written – progress comes very quickly. The article The Novice Effect is one of the more important essays we've done because it explains so many different things about the accumulation of a training effect under the bar. I suggest you read it.

    Read article

    Part 4: It's Too Hard Because It Works Too Fast

    I have seen comments about the program that indicate skepticism – not about whether the program works as fast as it does, but concern about the fact that it does, and whether or not this is a good thing.

    Read article

    Part 5: It Doesn't Work Fast Enough

    You can explain things to the general public at any level of detail you're prepared to spend the time on, and it won't matter. A certain body of information is codified in the Conventional Wisdom at a very deep level, placed there carefully and painstakingly through every aspect of the media, for purposes of selling bullshit to customers.

    Read article

    Part 5: Rip is Fat

    And after all, why would you listen to a fat man tell you about a fitness program? Aren't fit people skinny? Isn't that the point of exercise – to get skinny, like in high school?

    Read article

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I enjoy so much about this article. I enjoy so much about Starting Strength. The simplicity. The logical progression. The minimum effective dose approach.

    I also have so many questions about things I have learned over the years, and am looking for some help working through them.

    I have been training with clients at a gym for about four years now and currently spend between 30-40 hours on average on the floor with them weekly. Primarily one-on-one and some small groups/couples mixed in. I have completed several certifications (CSCS, Pain-Free Performance Specialist Certification put together by John Rusin and his crew, Joe DeFranco and Jim Smith Certified Physical Preparation Specialist) and I completed my bachelor of science degree in strength and conditioning, associate of arts degree in personal training. I only share this to hopefully paint a picture of where I am coming from. I know I am speaking on a forum where coaches here have been training with clients for much longer than myself so I am here to learn and grow as a coach.

    I grew up loving strength and conditioning. I liked training for sports more than the sports themselves. One of my favorite memories growing up was deadlifting 405 at our high school power meet. Not much to brag about, especially in this community. I weighed around 185 lbs and felt good about my deadlift number. I have yet to deadlift that much since then and I am currently 32.

    I have heard so much, from so many organizations and certifications about warm-ups, pre-hab, re-hab, conditioning, core training, etc. that it's almost as if not writing programs using these concepts and recommendations, working on all of these qualities simultaneously would be a shocker.

    Some of the things relative to the Starting Strength model that I am still trying to work out myself would be the following:

    1.) Having everyone squat to the depth of hip crease below top of the patella. Observing variable degrees of lumbar flexion to attain depth over the years I've let some clients squat to this depth and others felt it was a bit excessive. I am aware that spinal neutral is a "range" but from the individuals I have learned from in these organizations and certifications etc. that were previously mentioned, depth stops when lumbar flexion of nearly any degree starts. I rarely see anyone squatting to the depth recommended in SS in these demonstrations without some type of lumbar flexion taking place. From their perspective, this is dangerous. From SS perspective, I understand it is not as dangerous as it is inefficient as a force transmitter for the movement. I see PT's, doctors, and other professionals in the field support both sides with different reasoning. I am having a tough time determining what criteria should dictate depth - the material presented in SS has the most level of logic and detail, but in practice I want to be sure that I am doing no harm before I start loading up a movement pattern someone may be unprepared for.

    Question: Is there any instances in SS where depth as discussed in the model would not be appropriate, exclusively based on the amount of lumbar flexion taking place, and not a lack of strength as discussed on how to slowly build to depth for those who are very de-conditioned?

    2.) Lack of "upper back work/volume/prehab/injury risk mitigation/etc." in the program. This seems to be a big deal in a lot of the fitness circles I learn from and a big criticism of the SS program. I personal feel my upper back got much stronger through doing the SS program than 100 reps of banded or rope face pulls by just supporting a couple hundred pounds in the low-bar position for three sets of five. However, I have heard the importance of directly training the upper back so much that I question how important this type of work really is and if not utilizing these methods is being irresponsible in programming for clients. I also feel that my recent deadlifts above 250 lbs work the upper back quite well, and that although I can't tell how much lumbar/thoracic flexion is taking place to get in position to pull from the floor, my upper back and posture seem to be doing great. Apparently, not including these movements over time on a program like SS will result in a lack of balance caused by the internal rotation of the bench press/overhead press and no external rotation movements to "balance out" the pullressing ratios.

    Question: Is there enough work done in these movements to "balance" out these muscles, particularly of the shoulder/upper back being worked in the program to contribute to long term joint health and injury risk reduction?

    I would like to say yes based on my experience, but have questioned myself due to these things I have learned. I think that it has been stated that a ratio of overhead presses to bench presses of 1:1 provides balance in this context. If I tried to share that in my current circles, both of those movements would be classified in the "press" category and there would be literally no credit towards pulling in their tallies. I think that's kind of interesting since all of these muscles are working together especially the upper back on a heavy press.)

    3.) My biggest question overall is in regards to "Overuse". With the pendulum swinging to the "constantly varied" spectrum as of late through the popularization of conjugate training and the Westside Barbell variations of the squat/bench/deadlift all over YouTube, a big criticism of doing the same movement pattern with the same stance, same grip width etc. would be overuse injuries and general wear and tear.

    Questions: Has this ever been an issue with clients using the SS method? Do people just get nagging pains from doing the squat (or any of the primary movements) the same way they did last week, and last month on the NLP?

    I can see down the road how things will need to change and am aware of the various permutations from the primary movements done on the NLP like close-grip bench, stiff-legged deadlifts, etc. in addition to the assistance exercises. I know in Practical Programming there is even advice on rotating Max Effort selection for intermediates. I find it interesting that nearly every program that I have followed (except for SS), or seen programmed by the professionals I follow last 4 weeks, at the most, before a novel stimulus or variation is introduced. it seems logical that if you want to get good at a movement pattern you have to very regularly practice it. That does not seem to be the case in most programs.

    Questions: Is overuse an actual concern, and if so, what criteria would make it a concern or attribute it to performing the same movement again and again? If someone developed a shoulder pain and said it was from bench pressing, is it because they did the bench press too much, or just performed a rep incorrectly and they try to attribute it to overuse? What kind of criteria would constitute an actual issue arising from overuse of a particular movement, if any?

    These are some of the bigger things I am trying to work out. I am considering working toward becoming a starting strength coach. I have also reached out to a nearby Starting Strength facility in Columbus which just opened up and was welcomed to stop in for a Saturday open house. It is around 1.5 hours away from where I live so I am pretty excited to see things in person sometime soon. I am a regular reader here, and have great respect for all of the coaches on this forum. I own the books, watch the videos, visit the website regularly, and look forward to learning more now that I am a member of the forums. I know I asked a lot for one post but I just wanted to help you see the things I am trying to work out through my previous background and things I have learned and am questioning today.

    Thanks for all you do, and for any responses here to my questions!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    53,562

    Default

    I'm not going to type a response to this, takes too long. I will address it on a podcast soon.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I'm not going to type a response to this, takes too long. I will address it on a podcast soon.
    That would be amazing! Thanks so much!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stef View Post
    The Program Is Too Simple

    “There are only 6 exercises! That can't work. Look at all the other exercises being left out, and all the muscles this program ignores.”

    Read article
    As a 59 year-old novice, I love simple. I'll take an easy-to-follow, common sense, logical, no BS programme, over a complicated one any day.
    Not having to consider anything but a movement pattern and knowing that all I need to do is make sure I do that correctly to get stronger is perfect for me, all I want is stronger.

    I started this 7 weeks ago, training with my wife and it's one of the best things we ever did, and I fully realise that this is the easy, euphoric stage of NLP, and that there will be hard days.
    I've also had my share of bike, motorbike, and other injuries sustained in getting this far, some very serious, and those days were hard too.

    My main sport is cycling, and that teaches you to dig deep into yourself in a different way than lifting does, but the mental process of going further than you think you ever can is the same,
    and I'm determined to apply that to my lifting. This will become a permanent addition to our training and we will do the programme.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Part 2: It's Only Three Days a Week

    I know, you like to train. More correctly, you like to go to the gym. You like the atmosphere, the smell of the place, the people you've come to know, the idea of getting something accomplished. You sense the superiority of the regular members over the lazy slobs that compose the bulk of modern society, and you'd rather be around them than the creatures at Walmart.

    Read article

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Part 3: Failure to Appreciate the Novice Effect

    ​When you first start training correctly – doing the program as written – progress comes very quickly. The article The Novice Effect is one of the more important essays we've done because it explains so many different things about the accumulation of a training effect under the bar. I suggest you read it.

    Read article

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stef View Post
    Part 3: Failure to Appreciate the Novice Effect

    ​When you first start training correctly – doing the program as written – progress comes very quickly. The article The Novice Effect is one of the more important essays we've done because it explains so many different things about the accumulation of a training effect under the bar. I suggest you read it.

    Read article
    At what bodyweight/height do you expect these numbers at the end of the program, and what bodyweight and lifts would you expect for an individual around 175 cm tall?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    217

    Default

    Good articles. I am surprised of how the bodybuilding mentality continues to prevail in the "world" of the barbells and weights. I thought that internet, youtube , google and the excellent books like de Rip´s, as well as the fashion of the boxes with barbells and plates had changed the mindset of the average gym user but they continue with the same ignorance of 70´s age. During the pandemic I have tried to persuade someone people close to me that they can get huge and strong in a short time by doing three exercises with the bar and plates but to no avail. Increasingly outlandish theories are emerging about formulas for sets and repetitions in exercises with pulleys that will give you those super biceps mister olimpia, and people believe it.

    I have learned to shut up and enjoy SS, getting more big and more strong each day.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Part 4: It's Too Hard Because It Works Too Fast

    I have seen comments about the program that indicate skepticism – not about whether the program works as fast as it does, but concern about the fact that it does, and whether or not this is a good thing.

    Read article

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •