Are Masters athletes on TRT?

[EdTice]

If you decide to powerlift, the USPA and some other federations have non tested divisions.
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Health first

Sure but in the non-tested divisions you are going up against athletes who are using complex (and expensive) regimens of multiple grey-market PEDs. Since the whole USAPL/IPF thing I have largely even lost track of the various associations. Taking grey-market PEDs is not going to be beneficial to my health. Even things like dianabol that are probably good for health might not be a smart choice when you can't trust the provenance. The whole thing is frustrating. I'm glad you are still competitive with TRT. But the rules seem a mess. What if I transition to female and then transition back? Then I could take TRT? I don't know my current levels but now that I know that masters lifters are going to be forced to choose between health and competing, that will motivate me to get it done so that I can decide if I ever want to get under the barbell competitively again. Right now I'm not feeling that way. But I get inspired whenever I watch a competition.

[Logan1]

I've learned from you as well.

Reference ranges are interesting. In the old days, the allowances were such that Olympic athletes could be using and still pass legitimate tests. I believe the allowable T/E ratio in the 70's was 6:1 for men and 4:1 for women.

It took decades to revoke World Swimmer of the Year awards for some East German swimmers. According to some Stasi files, Kristen Otto supposedly had a 17:1 ratio. The joke was that she had more testosterone than the starting offense of the Super Bowl winning team. Of course, the chances that NFL players weren't using is IMO quite low.

[EdTice]

I've learned from you as well.

Reference ranges are interesting. In the old days, the allowances were such that Olympic athletes could be using and still pass legitimate tests. I believe the allowable T/E ratio in the 70's was 6:1 for men and 4:1 for women.

It took decades to World Swimmer of the Year awards for some East German swimmers. According to some Stasi files, Kristen Otto supposedly had a 17:1 ratio. The joke was that she had more testosterone than the starting offense of the Super Bowl winning team. Of course, the chances that NFL players weren't using is IMO quite low.

In addition to what I learn from our conversations, I try to go out and learn adjacent things. Fortunately I remember at least a small part of high school chemistry. From what I can learn from Coach Google, there isn't a current T/E limit. But if your T/E is greater than 4:1, secondary testing will be performed. Apparently we can't synthesize testosterone exactly and the commercially available testosterone for TRT is synthesized from plant materials and the final product has a C13:C12 ratio different than human-produced testosterone.

I said that the 4:1 is not a limit because, even if you are within the 4:1 ratio, there's always a risk of future testing to detect the use of testosterone and to retroactively disqualify you. Current procedures use 4:1 as a screening but that could change. See Floyd Landis and Lance Armstrong! At some point the isotope tests might be so cheap and easy that they get done regularly. Probably by then, though, better testosterone and epitestosterone will be available for the highest-level athletes.

It's very likely that in some of the former Soviet Republics still aligned with Russia, they are extracting testosterone and epitestosterone from the blood of prisoners and using that for their athletes which would completely mask any publicly-known testing technique and may or may not be future proof.

But I'm just a regular guy from New Jersey, so I have only the commercially available options

[CommanderFun]

It seems quite easy to get TRT in the US. Does that mean that I should expect Americans that I compete with in CrossFit Masters divisons to be on testosterone? Or do they risk failing a drug test if it comes to that?

If you are competing in any sport at a decently high level, you should expect competitors to be on more than just TRT.

[Logan1]

In addition to what I learn from our conversations, I try to go out and learn adjacent things. Fortunately I remember at least a small part of high school chemistry. From what I can learn from Coach Google, there isn't a current T/E limit. But if your T/E is greater than 4:1, secondary testing will be performed. Apparently we can't synthesize testosterone exactly and the commercially available testosterone for TRT is synthesized from plant materials and the final product has a C13:C12 ratio different than human-produced testosterone.

I said that the 4:1 is not a limit because, even if you are within the 4:1 ratio, there's always a risk of future testing to detect the use of testosterone and to retroactively disqualify you. Current procedures use 4:1 as a screening but that could change. See Floyd Landis and Lance Armstrong! At some point the isotope tests might be so cheap and easy that they get done regularly. Probably by then, though, better testosterone and epitestosterone will be available for the highest-level athletes.

It's very likely that in some of the former Soviet Republics still aligned with Russia, they are extracting testosterone and epitestosterone from the blood of prisoners and using that for their athletes which would completely mask any publicly-known testing technique and may or may not be future proof.

But I'm just a regular guy from New Jersey, so I have only the commercially available options

You are absolutely correct. The first test only determines whether or not there will be secondary testing.

Unfortunately, retroactively catching someone never restores what clean competitors lost. Being told decades later that you were the best in the World would be better than never knowing, but won't restore lost opportunities.

If you haven't seen it, Icarus is worth watching.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are absolutely correct. The first test only determines whether or not there will be secondary testing.

Unfortunately, retroactively catching someone never restores what clean competitors lost. Being told decades later that you were the best in the World would be better than never knowing, but won't restore lost opportunities.

If you haven't seen it, Icarus is worth watching.

And this is precisely why drug testing is such bullshit. If you want to compete with other athletes, and you know (as you should) that they are doing everything they can to win because winning is more important than anything else to people like this, and that they will do whatever is necessary to win, you can make your decision based on this information, instead of asking the incompetent federation officials to level the playing field for you.

What clean competitors lost was the meet. Competitive athletics is not for everybody.

[Logan1]

Using PEDs is a personal choice and I would have no issue if they were allowed in professional sports and some high-level amateur sports. Since in many cases they are not, I hope that those who use banned substances get caught and punished in sufficient numbers to minimize their use. I am also realistic enough to understand that the ingenuity of the cheaters almost certainly exceeds that of the regulators. I am also aware of the opportunities that I and some of my family members may have missed by being clean.

Very few lifters, especially at the Masters level, will ever be tested. The lack of detection doesn’t change the fact that using banned substances is still a fraudulent act. There are plenty of opportunities to compete in powerlifting against other untested lifters, so tested federations aren’t the only option.

There are dishonest people in almost every area of life. Like in sports, many of them will never be punished. Someone who chooses to use banned substances in athletics is no different than someone who commits fraud elsewhere. If you know someone whose justification for doing something unethical is that others are doing it and there is limited risk of discovery, don’t be shocked if that lack of integrity displays itself in other ways.

[Mark Rippetoe]

There are dishonest people in almost every area of life. Like in sports, many of them will never be punished. Someone who chooses to use banned substances in athletics is no different than someone who commits fraud elsewhere. If you know someone whose justification for doing something unethical is that others are doing it and there is limited risk of discovery, don’t be shocked if that lack of integrity displays itself in other ways.

Committed athletes are about nothing other than winning. So don't get in a contest with them and you'll be okay. I didn't make it this way -- I'm just pointing it out.

[dalan]

And this is precisely why drug testing is such bullshit. If you want to compete with other athletes, and you know (as you should) that they are doing everything they can to win because winning is more important than anything else to people like this, and that they will do whatever is necessary to win, you can make your decision based on this information, instead of asking the incompetent federation officials to level the playing field for you.

What clean competitors lost was the meet. Competitive athletics is not for everybody.

Absolutely all of this.

[Farmer]

I lift in the Masters powerlifting division and to my knowledge TUAs are not granted by USAPL, USPA or IPL. Even lifters who have had testicular cancer aren't immune from the ban. Since the USPA has an untested division, that would be the appropriate place for someone using HRT..

From what I understand the USAW and IWF are the same way.

You cannot get a TUE (exemption) for any kind of androgen (i.e. TRT) whatsoever.....