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Thread: Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press

  1. #1

    Default Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press

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    I saw this article article on my phone today, and it made me angry. Like a Soviet citizen living under communism, who knows the system is unfair but can't explain why, I know the author is lying, but I don't have the knowledge to explain how. Your thoughts are appreciated.


    "Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press. Do These Exercises to Build Your Shoulders Instead." by Jeff Tomko
    Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press. Do These Exercises to Build Your Shoulders Instead.

    When it comes to packing size to your shoulders, there are a multitude of exercises to help accomplish your goal. So why are you still relying on the old-school, overrated barbell overhead press?

    Sure, the barbell overhead press allows you to work with heavy loads for your shoulder training, which is great especially if you're an Olympic lifter, CrossFitter, or strongman athlete who is tasked with overhead barbell movements in your sport. But if competition isn't your goal, the movement is likely not worth the risk of injury to your shoulder joints or the extra time and effort needed to establish perfect pressing technique, according to trainers Mathew Forzaglia, NFPT-CPT, founder of Forzag Fitness and Men's Health fitness director Ebenezer Samuel, C.S.C.S.

    If I'm trying to overhead press, I just want the simplest overhead press where I can go heavy if I'm trying to really build my shoulders, Samuel says. Yes, you can get heavy with the barbellbut by the time we've done [learning] all that gymnastics to do that, I could have done a ton of other exercises they can get me there faster.

    Why You Shouldn't Do the Barbell Overhead Press

    The Overhead Barbell Press Puts Your Shoulder in a Restricted Position


    Before placing undue stress on your shoulder joints, lets emphasize this point again: because the barbell press puts us in a restricted position throughout the entire movement (given your hands' fixed position gripping the bar), it forces the lifters shoulders to internally rotate, which limits safe range of motion under load and puts you at risk of injury.

    There are techniques used to create some external rotationone of them being breaking the barbut for the amount of work needed to master the move, its easier and equally effective to find an alternative, especially if you dont have the healthiest shoulders to start.

    Keeping the Bar at the Right Angle Is Tough

    A perfect overhead press requires 180 degrees of full shoulder flexionwhich a good number of us do not possessand to be able to do that with your torso nice and tight instead leaning back. Without that core stability, you wind up in an unnatural pressing position, placing a whole lot of unnecessary stress on your rotator cuffs.

    The Overhead Barbell Press Can Put Your Back in a Bad Spot, Too

    An inability to achieve full shoulder flexion oftentimes leads to overarching your back and giving your mid-back more work that it can handlea recipe for injury. Also, putting yourself in this unsafe position also takes away most of the intended benefits of overhead pressingstrengthening your shoulder, not overworking your back.


    The article then goes on to list some assistance exercises that he recommends you do instead of the press. For what it's worth, in the accompanying video, the speaker assumes a wide grip which creates the very moment arm Rip's recommended grip width avoids.

  2. #2
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    There's a few things going on here.

    1) Most of the argument here is "doing things correctly is hard to learn and coach, so I don't want to do it."

    2) Several statements here just don't logically follow: "because the barbell press puts us in a restricted position throughout the entire movement (given your hands' fixed position gripping the bar), it forces the lifter's shoulders to internally rotate, which limits safe range of motion under load and puts you at risk of injury."

    Perhaps this is true if you have a model of the press that inherently leads to limitations, but we don't. That's why we can teach 80-year-olds how to press with the SS model.

    3) In one sentence, a total misunderstanding mechanics and lack of practical experience: "An inability to achieve full shoulder flexion oftentimes leads to overarching your back and giving your mid-back more work that it can handle - a recipe for injury."

    So your mid-back muscles are responsible for spinal flexion? That's what he's implying here. How does that mechanically make sense? Or does he mean the anterior thoracic muscles?

    Also, just broadly stating "a recipe for injury". Why? Has he tried this and discovered it kept hurting people's "mid back" muscles? If that's not the case, then does the mid back not adapt in response to the stress associated with mechanical deficiency?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenstein Shekkelblat View Post
    I saw this article article on my phone today, and it made me angry. Like a Soviet citizen living under communism, who knows the system is unfair but can't explain why, I know the author is lying, but I don't have the knowledge to explain how. Your thoughts are appreciated.


    "Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press. Do These Exercises to Build Your Shoulders Instead." by Jeff Tomko
    Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press. Do These Exercises to Build Your Shoulders Instead.
    Blah Blah Blah etc.

    Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training, 3rd edition (Current Revision, Paperback) – The Aasgaard Company

    Whole chapter about why this is bullshit. I can teach a safe correct press in 5 minutes. I would submit that these experts need to learn how.

  4. #4
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    Aug 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenstein Shekkelblat View Post
    I saw this article article on my phone today, and it made me angry. Like a Soviet citizen living under communism, who knows the system is unfair but can't explain why, I know the author is lying, but I don't have the knowledge to explain how. Your thoughts are appreciated.


    "Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press. Do These Exercises to Build Your Shoulders Instead." by Jeff Tomko
    Stop Doing the Barbell Overhead Press. Do These Exercises to Build Your Shoulders Instead.

    When it comes to packing size to your shoulders, there are a multitude of exercises to help accomplish your goal. So why are you still relying on the old-school, overrated barbell overhead press?

    Sure, the barbell overhead press allows you to work with heavy loads for your shoulder training, which is great especially if you're an Olympic lifter, CrossFitter, or strongman athlete who is tasked with overhead barbell movements in your sport. But if competition isn't your goal, the movement is likely not worth the risk of injury to your shoulder joints or the extra time and effort needed to establish perfect pressing technique, according to trainers Mathew Forzaglia, NFPT-CPT, founder of Forzag Fitness and Men's Health fitness director Ebenezer Samuel, C.S.C.S.

    If I'm trying to overhead press, I just want the simplest overhead press where I can go heavy if I'm trying to really build my shoulders, Samuel says. Yes, you can get heavy with the barbellbut by the time we've done [learning] all that gymnastics to do that, I could have done a ton of other exercises they can get me there faster.

    Why You Shouldn't Do the Barbell Overhead Press

    The Overhead Barbell Press Puts Your Shoulder in a Restricted Position


    Before placing undue stress on your shoulder joints, lets emphasize this point again: because the barbell press puts us in a restricted position throughout the entire movement (given your hands' fixed position gripping the bar), it forces the lifters shoulders to internally rotate, which limits safe range of motion under load and puts you at risk of injury.

    There are techniques used to create some external rotationone of them being breaking the barbut for the amount of work needed to master the move, its easier and equally effective to find an alternative, especially if you dont have the healthiest shoulders to start.

    Keeping the Bar at the Right Angle Is Tough

    A perfect overhead press requires 180 degrees of full shoulder flexionwhich a good number of us do not possessand to be able to do that with your torso nice and tight instead leaning back. Without that core stability, you wind up in an unnatural pressing position, placing a whole lot of unnecessary stress on your rotator cuffs.

    The Overhead Barbell Press Can Put Your Back in a Bad Spot, Too

    An inability to achieve full shoulder flexion oftentimes leads to overarching your back and giving your mid-back more work that it can handlea recipe for injury. Also, putting yourself in this unsafe position also takes away most of the intended benefits of overhead pressingstrengthening your shoulder, not overworking your back.


    The article then goes on to list some assistance exercises that he recommends you do instead of the press. For what it's worth, in the accompanying video, the speaker assumes a wide grip which creates the very moment arm Rip's recommended grip width avoids.
    This magazine seems to continually fill the pages with contradictory BS just to fill the pages and get clicks.

  5. #5
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    Soon as I saw the two bros in the little video talking about "internal rotation" and showing their hands gripping way out past the shoulders, I knew these guys weren't even talking about the same exercise as the press.

  6. #6
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    I read that article on yahoo a couple of days ago. I was pleasantly surprised when I went to the comments. One of the comments was “ sit down, shut up, and do starting strength.” This article seems like someone has personal problem with the press. Either they have a really weak press or cannot get their arms over their head. How dare anyone take away the press.

  7. #7
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    If you click on the link, you’ll be joyously entertained to see that this article not only comes from Men’s Health Magazine, but also has a video attached with these two skinny fuckers, with tiny shoulders, talking about how they can build big shoulders without the press. Even better, as they’re explaining all of this, they’re showing video of people pressing with their elbows out to the side and certainly not in front of them, all of whom have an incorrect grip that is also too wide.

  8. #8

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    What confused me was the talk about internal rotation of the shoulder, but I think I know what he was talking about now. If I assume a very wide grip on the overhead press and my elbows are at 90 degrees while pressing, my shoulders feel like shit. Even assuming that position with no weight feels weird in my shoulder, but I have a history of dislocations there.


    I think I understand what happened to these so-called "experts": they reached the end of novice progression on the press, and they have no idea how to program the advanced novice or intermediate press. They got stuck indefinitely, and said, "Shit, this is hard, and I'm an expert!" and came up with rationalizations for why they couldn't progress, and extrapolated that if I, Men's Health fitness director, can't do this, then no one else even has a chance, so let's all do these bodybuilding shoulder exercises instead. I myself was surprised by how suddenly and abruptly the +5 pounds every workout ended on the press.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2020
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    Didn't read it and don't have to. There is probably a similar article or video for every exercise under the sun. They have to fill space with something, even if that something is stupid.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenstein Shekkelblat View Post
    What confused me was the talk about internal rotation of the shoulder, but I think I know what he was talking about now. If I assume a very wide grip on the overhead press and my elbows are at 90 degrees while pressing, my shoulders feel like shit. Even assuming that position with no weight feels weird in my shoulder, but I have a history of dislocations there.


    I think I understand what happened to these so-called "experts": they reached the end of novice progression on the press, and they have no idea how to program the advanced novice or intermediate press. They got stuck indefinitely, and said, "Shit, this is hard, and I'm an expert!" and came up with rationalizations for why they couldn't progress, and extrapolated that if I, Men's Health fitness director, can't do this, then no one else even has a chance, so let's all do these bodybuilding shoulder exercises instead. I myself was surprised by how suddenly and abruptly the +5 pounds every workout ended on the press.
    I saw this article too but didn't bother to read through or comment since I knew it would be ridiculous. There's nothing inherently dangerous "pressing" with a wide grip. It's not the most effective way due to the limited range of motion. But people bench press with their hands out past the legal position and it's a safe exercise. So is the barbell snatch. There are plenty of tiny females can snatch twice their body weight and none of them get brain cancer as a result. The worst part is that some people will read this crap and believe it.

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