Conditioning: A Case For "Prowling" In Place, aka Pushing The Wall the HIIT Way Conditioning: A Case For "Prowling" In Place, aka Pushing The Wall the HIIT Way

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Thread: Conditioning: A Case For "Prowling" In Place, aka Pushing The Wall the HIIT Way

  1. #1
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    Post Conditioning: A Case For "Prowling" In Place, aka Pushing The Wall the HIIT Way

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    Two forethoughts:
    1. when Pushing the Prowler the upper body works isometrically (shown here by Chase and Rip)
    2. when you aim to push or lift an immovable object as if your kid's life depends on it (a truck in Park gear?) you aren't doing work from a Physics point of view (because the truck isn't budging), but you sure are doing metabolic work and are out of breath by the end of the bout.

    Hypothesis:
    Pushing a wall with similar set duration, number of sets and intensity as one'd do in a Pushing the Prowler HIIT session is likely to result in conditioning improvement

    Video examples of the move I am referring to:
    Overcoming Isometric Wall Push
    Wall sled push
    Split-Stance Isometric Wall Push (Overcoming Isometrics)
    Move The Wall Isometric Challenge

    Any constructive thoughts*?

    Thank you.


    *"Isometrics do not increase strength or muscle size" will be unhelpful since we're talking only Conditioning here.

  2. #2
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    If this would be a viable approach, why not just do deadlift isometrics? Load up more than you can deadlift at the bottom and set up and pull on it. Or do it halfway up the rep and deadlift into the pins.

    What makes a prowler isometric different than an actual prowler push?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    If this would be a viable approach, why not just do deadlift isometrics? Load up more than you can deadlift at the bottom and set up and pull on it. Or do it halfway up the rep and deadlift into the pins.
    Andrew, good question! I like this "static contraction deadlift" against an immovable weight or against the pins.
    We would need also a "static contraction push" (after all the prowler exercise Rip teaches is a push), I guess a static Press into the pins, which involves a larger kinetic chain than the bench press? Or a just a max-effort wall push, the stance of which is closest to pushing an actual prowler?
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    What makes a prowler isometric different than an actual prowler push?
    I have been trying to answer this myself. In a prowler push in which the prowler is indeed displaced forward, the legs take turns at each step at being the "main pushing leg", while in an isometric prowler push (where the prowler stays in place) one could do the entire bout with the same leg being the "main" leg (and then on the next set the other leg assuming that role).
    Metabolically speaking, I suspect not much difference, if any, assuming the isometric push is truly taken close to max effort (as if one was trying to push a car away in order to free someone trapped under it, or some other example in which one would come close to a max effort).

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    Fleischman, what are your Squat/Press/Deadlift/Bench numbers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleischman View Post
    Two forethoughts:
    1. when Pushing the Prowler the upper body works isometrically (shown here by Chase and Rip)
    2. when you aim to push or lift an immovable object as if your kid's life depends on it (a truck in Park gear?) you aren't doing work from a Physics point of view (because the truck isn't budging), but you sure are doing metabolic work and are out of breath by the end of the bout.

    Hypothesis:
    Pushing a wall with similar set duration, number of sets and intensity as one'd do in a Pushing the Prowler HIIT session is likely to result in conditioning improvement

    Video examples of the move I am referring to:
    Overcoming Isometric Wall Push
    Wall sled push
    Split-Stance Isometric Wall Push (Overcoming Isometrics)
    Move The Wall Isometric Challenge

    Any constructive thoughts*?

    Thank you.


    *"Isometrics do not increase strength or muscle size" will be unhelpful since we're talking only Conditioning here.
    What about those videos you linked makes you think they are good exercises and a replacement for pushing a prowler? Do you not think the people looks ridiculous doing it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Fleischman, what are your Squat/Press/Deadlift/Bench numbers?
    Coach Rip, thank you for asking.

    At the risk of derailing the thread, I'll answer this question.
    Disclaimer: I do not plan on doing conditioning yet. Reason for this threat is so I am ready with a Conditioning plan when I reach the point where Barbell Prescription says I am ready to get started.

    I started "my SS-inspired program" on Oct 15th, train every 2 days (no 3 days off on weekends). Age 52, height 5'6", weight 155 lb. Had not lifted barbell before.

    Workout A is:
    45-degree decline deficit pushups (will start weighing them at next session), set of 5 reps, set of 5, set of as many as possible (last time 3rd set was 8 reps)
    SS Deadlift: first session was 65 lb 3 sets of 5 reps, latest is 115x3x5. Plan to continue adding 5 lb at a time.

    Workout B is:
    45-degree chin ups, set of 5, set of 5, set of as many as I can (last time 3rd set was 8 reps, started weighing them yesterday)
    A combination of these two moves, so during both the eccentric and concentric phases the body is at around 45 degrees
    Lean Back Chin Ups
    Sternum "Plank" Chin-up
    SS Back Squats, first session was 65 lb 3 sets of 5, latest was 115x3x5, plan to continue adding 5 lb at a time.

    Wanting to be cautious, I have been adding 5 lb per session to squats and to deadlifts, given my age and my being new to barbell training.
    I have not missed a workout session ;-)

    (Other than carrying the bar on my back during squats) I love this program and because of that it will be sustainable for me.
    I'll report with updates in 6 months' time.

    Thank you for giving me this opportunity to put my thoughts together, and from what I have learnt and am learning through SS.

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    Fleischman, go away. This is ridiculous. Post on some other board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Fleischman, go away. This is ridiculous. Post on some other board.
    What's the reason only full adherents are welcome? Also, this thread is only about Conditioning, and not about "Fleischman's lifting program" (which I shared only bc you asked about my numbers and I thought sharing the details on my plan put things in perspective better than poundages alone).

    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    What about those videos you linked makes you think they are good exercises and a replacement for pushing a prowler? Do you not think the people looks ridiculous doing it?
    You sure must have more insightful reason than "looking ridiculous" to discount something as valid or invalid conditioning work.

    How about you give me a good answer to the following question?
    Why do you think it is reasonable to do conditioning work with the upper body working isometrically (the actual prowler push) and you think it is unreasonable if both the upper and lower body working work isometrically (wall push)?

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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleischman View Post
    You sure must have more insightful reason than "looking ridiculous" to discount something as valid or invalid conditioning work.
    I don't think I need one.

    How about you give me a good answer to the following question?
    Why do you think it is reasonable to do conditioning work with the upper body working isometrically (the actual prowler push) and you think it is unreasonable if both the upper and lower body working work isometrically (wall push)?
    Because one can be viewed and people will know what it is, the other one people will view and want to add cartoon sound effects to it.

    Look if you think your right, go to a public park and find a tree (because natural is better right) and push against it as hard as you can for 5 sets till failure. Please post a form check and if you can do it well I will admit I was wrong.
    Since it's isometric and by a tree I'd be concerned of Dogs sniffing your leg and deciding to make you their territory, so I'd recommend loud grunts as you work to A) scare them off and B) protect your core from the raised intra abdominal pressure.

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