Lift Shoot Fight with John Valentine | Starting Strength Radio #193

[stef]

Rip talks with John Valentine and Nick D about the Lift Shoot Fight camp and John's company, Deeds of Arms.

• 01:35 John Valentine and Lift Shoot Fight
• 03:11 About John Valentine
• 06:55 Expectations of the Lift Shoot Fight camp
• 14:56 Coaching movement patterns and processes
• 20:35 Lifting during Lift Shoot Fight
• 26:35 Why getting stronger matters/shooting during Lift Shoot Fight
• 34:31 Fighting during Lift Shoot Fight/real-world situations
• 42:40 Assessing how you train
• 49:28 Not having the right to defend yourself
• 53:38 Deeds Of Arms

[Ciaran McDonnell]

Interesting chat. You mentioned how a Starting Strength approach needs to be applied to Jiu Jitsu in order to find an optimal teaching method for the general population. Hasn´t this already been done by Ryron and Rener Gracie? What do you think of the Gracie Combatives programme and the Master Cycle? Do you think that it falls short of a true Starting Strength approach to teaching Jiu jitsu? If so would Nick Delgadillo or another Starting Strength Coach consider creating the definitive equivalent of the Novice Lineal Progression for Jiu jitsu?

[Nick Delgadillo]

Interesting chat. You mentioned how a Starting Strength approach needs to be applied to Jiu Jitsu in order to find an optimal teaching method for the general population. Hasn´t this already been done by Ryron and Rener Gracie? What do you think of the Gracie Combatives programme and the Master Cycle? Do you think that it falls short of a true Starting Strength approach to teaching Jiu jitsu? If so would Nick Delgadillo or another Starting Strength Coach consider creating the definitive equivalent of the Novice Lineal Progression for Jiu jitsu?

The Gracie Combatives System is just BJJ as usual in that you have a collection of techniques to master. There's a bit of a shift in the way it's presented as self defense/progression, blah, blah, blah....

I don't remember arguing that anyone should develop a "Starting Strength of Jiu Jitsu" but more that coaches THINK about what the hell they're doing rather than the typical situation where you warm up for 15 minutes jogging around the mats, the instructor shows a technique, you drill it a few times (maybe under a little bit of pressure), and then you roll/spar for a while. This is the equivalent of "put the bar on your back, squat down, and stand up."

This results in people getting better at BJJ on accident just because they stick around and fight other dudes for years. But in most cases it results in a revolving door of white belts because most people don't want to show up to a place and not only lose every single night, but also not be able to see that there's a point to all the losing. There are better ways to approach the problem that gets people more proficient at BJJ faster and keeps them interested since they aren't lost and directionless for the first 6 months of training. We're dealing with a much more complex situation in grappling than lifting weights, so just having a technical analysis of group of techniques (like you can have for a squat) and a method to learn and apply them isn't sufficient. The base required to be good and successful against an opponent has little to do with individual techniques, but way more to do with everything that produces a successful technique - timing, experience, athleticism, positioning, leverage, control, etc. These are the things that a good coach can develop quickly.

If so would Nick Delgadillo or another Starting Strength Coach consider creating the definitive equivalent of the Novice Lineal Progression for Jiu jitsu?

Here's the ranking system I put together for my school. There's not a single submission or position listed because fighting evolves, but the fundamental concepts don't: A Better Way to Think About Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Belts – Lift. Fight. Win.

Lauritzen is developing a training manual for BJJ that takes another approach. There are a bunch of SSCs and trainees also doing BJJ, and there are a lot of very smart people (who are also high level BJJ practitioners and coaches) in the self defense world (Craig Douglas, Cecil Burch, Matt Larsen, Jerry Wetzel, Cliff Byerly are some of the guys who come to mind) doing really good things as well who will start to have more broad influence as well.

The reality is that this approach is much harder to do well as a coach. So just like everything else in the world including fitness, firearms, and fighting, the number of people who stop to actually think about what they are doing and approach their craft with a self-critical eye will always be small.

[Johnsonville]

From what I understand, Gracie Barra has a pretty ridged curriculum, at least for the lower belts. I’ve never trained at one of their gyms so I’m not sure how it works. My gym uses the nova uniao curriculum and it gave me a solid advantage compared to the other schools I’ve trained at where the white belts know heel hooks but can’t do a pendulum sweep. I do think the general philosophy of ss could apply very well to a grappling curriculum though.