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Thread: does anyone have experience with the cambered squat bar?

  1. #1
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    Default does anyone have experience with the cambered squat bar?

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    Hello!

    I searched diligently for info on the cambered squat bar, and I found some brief comments about it in one of Ripp's Q&A sessions; however, I was curious to know a little more because I read a blog post on westside-barbell.com ("Starting Conjugate: Giant Cambered Bar" by Burley Hawk) and elitefts ("What’s that Specialty Bar for?" by C.J. Murphy) which asserted that the cambered bar squat places emphasis on the strength of the back, glutes, hamstrings, hips, and trunk. This caught my attention because my squats tend to be quad-dominant.

    The technique of squatting with a cambered bar appears to be identical to that of a conventional, low-bar squat (according to Jim Wendler, "6 Specialty Bars for Strength and Size"); however, Revolutionary Program Design believes the pendulum motion of the weights on a cambered bar force the lifter to recruit more muscle fibers in his legs and lower back. If it's true that a barbell squat is superior to a machine press due to requiring more balance, it seems logical that a cambered bar squat is superior to a low bar squat for the same reason.

    I began considering how the leverages change as a result of lowering the weight via the cambered bar during the squat. It seems a couple of things happen: the moment arm from the hips, knees, and low back to the bar at the bottom of the cambered bar squat will be shorter than in a straight-bar squat. Furthermore, the center of gravity at the bottom of a cambered bar squat is lower.

    These factors imply the lifter will be more stable in the bottom (due to the lower center of gravity), will be capable of lifting more weight (due to the shorter moment arms), and will experience less torque / stress on the low back (also due to the shorter moment arm). I have found attachments online which convert a straight bar into a cambered bar for a reasonable price, so I'm wondering if it's worth trying out to achieve my objective of improving my squat mechanics and overloading my posterior relative to my quads.

    Thank you for reading!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamberlain View Post
    Hello!

    I searched diligently for info on the cambered squat bar, and I found some brief comments about it in one of Ripp's Q&A sessions; however, I was curious to know a little more because I read a blog post on westside-barbell.com ("Starting Conjugate: Giant Cambered Bar" by Burley Hawk) and elitefts ("What’s that Specialty Bar for?" by C.J. Murphy) which asserted that the cambered bar squat places emphasis on the strength of the back, glutes, hamstrings, hips, and trunk. This caught my attention because my squats tend to be quad-dominant.

    The technique of squatting with a cambered bar appears to be identical to that of a conventional, low-bar squat (according to Jim Wendler, "6 Specialty Bars for Strength and Size"); however, Revolutionary Program Design believes the pendulum motion of the weights on a cambered bar force the lifter to recruit more muscle fibers in his legs and lower back. If it's true that a barbell squat is superior to a machine press due to requiring more balance, it seems logical that a cambered bar squat is superior to a low bar squat for the same reason.

    I began considering how the leverages change as a result of lowering the weight via the cambered bar during the squat. It seems a couple of things happen: the moment arm from the hips, knees, and low back to the bar at the bottom of the cambered bar squat will be shorter than in a straight-bar squat. Furthermore, the center of gravity at the bottom of a cambered bar squat is lower.

    These factors imply the lifter will be more stable in the bottom (due to the lower center of gravity), will be capable of lifting more weight (due to the shorter moment arms), and will experience less torque / stress on the low back (also due to the shorter moment arm). I have found attachments online which convert a straight bar into a cambered bar for a reasonable price, so I'm wondering if it's worth trying out to achieve my objective of improving my squat mechanics and overloading my posterior relative to my quads.

    Thank you for reading!
    There's a flaw in your analysis. The cambered bar introduces an instability, which then causes a lighter weight to be used due to the instability. So even IF the mechanics are similar to a low bar squat, the low bar is still superior due to the greater weight being used. Remember the body CANNOT apply max force to an object unless stability is achieved first. In the words of Fred Hatfield: " You can't fire a cannon from a canoe". I have a cambered bar and find it useful only for Good Mornings to be used by strong, advanced lifters who have absolute control of the hinge pattern and need additional posterior chain volume to drive progress without adding additional lower body work due to excess fatigue.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamberlain View Post
    Hello!

    I searched diligently for info on the cambered squat bar, and I found some brief comments about it in one of Ripp's Q&A sessions; however, I was curious to know a little more because I read a blog post on westside-barbell.com ("Starting Conjugate: Giant Cambered Bar" by Burley Hawk) and elitefts ("What’s that Specialty Bar for?" by C.J. Murphy) which asserted that the cambered bar squat places emphasis on the strength of the back, glutes, hamstrings, hips, and trunk. This caught my attention because my squats tend to be quad-dominant.

    The technique of squatting with a cambered bar appears to be identical to that of a conventional, low-bar squat (according to Jim Wendler, "6 Specialty Bars for Strength and Size"); however, Revolutionary Program Design believes the pendulum motion of the weights on a cambered bar force the lifter to recruit more muscle fibers in his legs and lower back. If it's true that a barbell squat is superior to a machine press due to requiring more balance, it seems logical that a cambered bar squat is superior to a low bar squat for the same reason.

    I began considering how the leverages change as a result of lowering the weight via the cambered bar during the squat. It seems a couple of things happen: the moment arm from the hips, knees, and low back to the bar at the bottom of the cambered bar squat will be shorter than in a straight-bar squat. Furthermore, the center of gravity at the bottom of a cambered bar squat is lower.

    These factors imply the lifter will be more stable in the bottom (due to the lower center of gravity), will be capable of lifting more weight (due to the shorter moment arms), and will experience less torque / stress on the low back (also due to the shorter moment arm). I have found attachments online which convert a straight bar into a cambered bar for a reasonable price, so I'm wondering if it's worth trying out to achieve my objective of improving my squat mechanics and overloading my posterior relative to my quads.

    Thank you for reading!
    Cambered bars are less stable, so squatting with them is harder. They also force you to be more vertical, which makes it harder. These bars are good if you have arm/shoulder issues that prevent you from using a regular barbell and you can run an LP with them. I created a post in the equipment section on the transformer bar, which I believe to be the best cambered bar on the market. I wouldn't use one unless you must.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian Ohanian View Post
    Cambered bars are less stable, so squatting with them is harder. They also force you to be more vertical, which makes it harder. These bars are good if you have arm/shoulder issues that prevent you from using a regular barbell and you can run an LP with them. I created a post in the equipment section on the transformer bar, which I believe to be the best cambered bar on the market. I wouldn't use one unless you must.
    Yes, I believe making the squat harder is largely the purpose of using a cambered bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbackos View Post
    There's a flaw in your analysis. The cambered bar introduces an instability, which then causes a lighter weight to be used due to the instability. So even IF the mechanics are similar to a low bar squat, the low bar is still superior due to the greater weight being used. Remember the body CANNOT apply max force to an object unless stability is achieved first. In the words of Fred Hatfield: " You can't fire a cannon from a canoe". I have a cambered bar and find it useful only for Good Mornings to be used by strong, advanced lifters who have absolute control of the hinge pattern and need additional posterior chain volume to drive progress without adding additional lower body work due to excess fatigue.
    That is fair, but by the same logic, the hack squat and leg press would be superior to any form of barbell squat.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamberlain View Post
    Yes, I believe making the squat harder is largely the purpose of using a cambered bar.
    Why do we use the low-bar position for the squat?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Why do we use the low-bar position for the squat?
    The main reason is that the low-bar position allows the lifter to move heavier weight than the high bar or front-rack positions, if I recall correctly.

  7. #7
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    Exactimundo. So why use a cambered bar?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamberlain View Post
    Yes, I believe making the squat harder is largely the purpose of using a cambered bar.



    That is fair, but by the same logic, the hack squat and leg press would be superior to any form of barbell squat.
    Wrong: Remember - greatest weight at the greatest range of motion

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbackos View Post
    Wrong: Remember - greatest weight at the greatest range of motion
    Most weight, using the most muscle mass, over the greatest effective range of motion - hence squats to below parallel, not ATG squats. The hack squat and leg press machines take out some of the muscle mass involvement, by stabilizing the weight for you.

  10. #10
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    I am currently coaching a 55 year old lifter who has significant shoulder mobility issues. High bar and low bar are a no-go for him at the moment (we're doing the Horn Stretch as often as possible). We thought the cambered bar would be a decent solution but some things I've noticed:

    Having the bar in the low bar position provides a solid anchor to remain tight against while the shoulders are in extension and the scapulae are squeezed tightly together. The high bar offers this to a lesser degree, but one that is still better than the cambered bar. The cambered bar with the hands in front of the lifter, tends to default to the shoulders being in an anatomically neutral position rather than in extension. Any shift away from mid-foot not only creates a moment arm, but also has a tendency to pull the shoulder and upper back into flexion and create a lot of instability throughout the upper and lower back.

    I personally despise the cambered bar for this reason, but in the absence of being able to do a high bar or low bar squat, it just has to do. Given that the trainee in question is in the older population, I'm learning that we have to be very careful about the loading and the cues to keep the upper back tight, while also being mindful that it is easier for someone to aggravate a back problem with the cambered bar than I had anticipated. Since it's often called a "Safety Squat" bar it gives the illusion of being "safer," but I personally dislike it.

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