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Thread: The “Standing Bench Press” | Robert Santana

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    Default The “Standing Bench Press” | Robert Santana

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    The debate between single-joint exercise advocates and multi-joint exercise advocates has stood the test of time. In one corner, you have strength coaches, like myself, that spend most of our time teaching lifters to perform compound movements comprised of multiple joint actions. In the other corner, you have bodybuilders, physical therapists, “corrective exercise specialists,” and some spin-off of all the above that promote exercising isolated joint actions.

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    The Blue book states that "our version" of the press eliminates "excessive layback" (even mentioning that olympic lifters were able to lay back so much as to make the press a lot like a bench press), but it doesn't really clarify what would be considered excessive (or I missed it, which is also quite possible). When should a coach instruct the lifter to exhibit less layback?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjamaan View Post
    The Blue book states that "our version" of the press eliminates "excessive layback" (even mentioning that olympic lifters were able to lay back so much as to make the press a lot like a bench press), but it doesn't really clarify what would be considered excessive (or I missed it, which is also quite possible). When should a coach instruct the lifter to exhibit less layback?
    Rip will certainly correct me if I am wrong but I'll provide my analysis. We do not teach anyone to perform a double layback at seminars or in our gyms. We don't do this because it adds unnecessary complexity to the lift. Now when it gets truly heavy the second layback happens whether you want it to or not and the degree to which it happens varies between lifters. This was something Rip told me years ago when I had only been pressing with this method for about a year or two and had not yet made it to big weights. Once I became a firm intermediate and was pressing well over bodyweight it simply started happening, just as Rip said.

    "Excessive" layback was once defined in the strengthlifting rules as the armpits getting behind the glutes. Problem was that glute size varies so not a very good definition and I honestly don't think you can objectively control for the degree of layback in a competition because of the individual differences in anthropometry. That would be like trying to control for arm length on a deadlift.

    The factor I try to control for with layback is when the triceps lockout. If the triceps fully extend while the shoulders stop flexing, I try to coach that out unless the lifter is competing and can prevent the bar from traveling downward while doing so. I acknowledge a degree of subjectivity still exists with that criteria as well. That said, what I don't want to see is the cessation of shoulder flexion to complete elbow extension. In a competition, the rules currently allow for this so I won't stop a competitor from using that advantage but a non competitor need not do that.

    To answer your other question, you instruct a lifter to control the layback if he is overextending his spine to accomplish it. A trained coaches eye can notice the difference.
    Last edited by Robert Santana; 03-08-2023 at 01:17 PM.

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    I don't think it will ever stop amazing me how upset people get about hip movement in a press. These same people aren't getting mad at dudes push pressing in strongman events. If you don't like to press that way, then just don't.

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    It's always those who do not perform any variation of the press that are the loudest about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    It's always those who do not perform any variation of the press that are the loudest about this.
    What I've never understood about these folks is how they somehow forget what happens with the Strict Press if your press with the hip movement goes up. It goes up too. It's the same thing like what happens to your front squat if your squat goes way up. What's the big deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Rip will certainly correct me if I am wrong but I'll provide my analysis. We do not teach anyone to perform a double layback at seminars or in our gyms. We don't do this because it adds unnecessary complexity to the lift. Now when it gets truly heavy the second layback happens whether you want it to or not and the degree to which it happens varies between lifters. This was something Rip told me years ago when I had only been pressing with this method for about a year or two and had not yet made it to big weights. Once I became a firm intermediate and was pressing well over bodyweight it simply started happening, just as Rip said.
    Thanks for your thorough answer! I'm a little concerned because I'm still lifting only about half my bodyweight with the press and notice that as I reach my current PR (for reps), I notice my back arching even if I try to fight it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    To answer your other question, you instruct a lifter to control the layback if he is overextending his spine to accomplish it. A trained coaches eye can notice the difference.
    Thanks, that makes sense!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjamaan View Post
    Thanks for your thorough answer! I'm a little concerned because I'm still lifting only about half my bodyweight with the press and notice that as I reach my current PR (for reps), I notice my back arching even if I try to fight it.
    Your back is going to arch. Your abs protect it from overextending. You'll be fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjamaan View Post
    Thanks for your thorough answer! I'm a little concerned because I'm still lifting only about half my bodyweight with the press and notice that as I reach my current PR (for reps), I notice my back arching even if I try to fight it.



    Thanks, that makes sense!
    As long as you are trying to fight it, which means you're engaging your abs, then you will train them and they'll get stronger. If your back overarches because it relaxes, well you'll know because the bar will not move more than 3 inches upwards

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjamaan View Post
    Thanks for your thorough answer! I'm a little concerned because I'm still lifting only about half my bodyweight with the press and notice that as I reach my current PR (for reps), I notice my back arching even if I try to fight it.
    I echo Rip's comment. Now, how much do you weigh? Are you feeling any pain or ache in your low back when it happens? When done correctly, you should feel your hip flexors stretching while your glutes are contracting. As you develop more body awareness you'll feel the adductors and hamstrings contracting isometrically as well. For most, I just cue the glutes because it's an easy one to feel and the rest of the posterior chain will usually follow.

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