Big and Strong | Daniel Oakes

[Eric Larousse]

He probably could take him down if he got behind him, which is what he’s good at in the standing position. Again watch any of the early UFC’s, or bob sapps 600lb nfl ass get submitted by a 220lb noguera in a fight. You sound stupid.

Are you sure you aren't missing the point that USUALLY the bigger stronger guy wins in a fight?

[Matt275]

Are you sure you aren't missing the point that USUALLY the bigger stronger guy wins in a fight?

If he knows what he’s doing. This video has a good demonstration of inside control negating strength. Thor’s shoulder pressure doesn’t put Gordon down when he gets inside control. It also shows how he holds his pin too long later in the video. He gets swept. To the point that with equally skilled opponents the bigger stronger one wins, Gordon says it should be illegal for guys like Thor to learn BJJ.

Jiu-Jitsu Champion vs. World?s Strongest Man - YouTube

[Cfink]

Exactly, and the guys saying “it has rules so it’s not a real fight” have probably never stepped on the mats in their life, or they would know there’s no chance you beat any guy who’s past a blue belt no matter the circumstances, weapons or your “strength” level. But bottom line as Rip says is it’s always better to be stronger. You should train ground fighting, you should shoot and you should lift. They aren’t mutually exclusive so the argument is dumb.

[my_back_hurts]

Exactly, and the guys saying “it has rules so it’s not a real fight” have probably never stepped on the mats in their life, or they would know there’s no chance you beat any guy who’s past a blue belt no matter the circumstances, weapons or your “strength” level. But bottom line as Rip says is it’s always better to be stronger. You should train ground fighting, you should shoot and you should lift. They aren’t mutually exclusive so the argument is dumb.

What exactly does " no matter the circumstances and weapons" mean in the context of a claim about what a "real fight" is like? You surely don't mean to say a BJJ blue belt has nothing to worry about if his opponent has a knife or gun and is willing to use them? Or that the circumstance is his opponent is +150lbs and 10 inches taller? Do you mean such an opponent has "no chance"? Can you put a little meat on the bone here, I'm having trouble parsing this.

[Yngvi]

This thread has finally entered Bruce Lee territory.

[Mark Rippetoe]

As I predicted.

[francesco.decaro]

Exactly, and the guys saying “it has rules so it’s not a real fight” have probably never stepped on the mats in their life, or they would know there’s no chance you beat any guy who’s past a blue belt no matter the circumstances, weapons or your “strength” level. But bottom line as Rip says is it’s always better to be stronger. You should train ground fighting, you should shoot and you should lift. They aren’t mutually exclusive so the argument is dumb.

Pretty sure weapons would be a pretty important factor, unless of course, we ARE in Bruce Lee territory.

I don't think any of the arguments was that you can only do one of three activities, it was about the amount of advantage someone much bigger and stronger has over a smaller and weaker opponent, regardless of skill, and we already know the answer is: a lot of advantage

Was Thor allowed to punch the other guy in the face in their demonstration? Or poke his eyes out Game of Thrones style?

[DanielAcorn]

I'm happy that I've sparked a debate, but why does this debate always occur whenever someone simply says 'being big and strong' helps in a fight? If someone said 'being tall and lanky helps you reach apples' and then someone else said, 'no, no, the skilled apple picker would wipe the floor with an untrained man', you would be laughed at...

I smell insecurity about being small and weak.

[my_back_hurts]

I'm happy that I've sparked a debate, but why does this debate always occur whenever someone simply says 'being big and strong' helps in a fight? If someone said 'being tall and lanky helps you reach apples' and then someone else said, 'no, no, the skilled apple picker would wipe the floor with an untrained man', you would be laughed at...

I smell insecurity about being small and weak.

There's a long tradition of 'skill trumps all' in martial arts, especially "traditional" martial arts. Most of the arts that have been exposed to real combat or ring fighting have sorted this out, but if you poke around on kung fu guys' websites and social media they're still insisting you can joint-lock and pressure point an opponent who's got +100lbs on you. BJJ guys in particular are still going through these growing pains.

I also think a lot of people are missing that you're talking about preparing for self-defense - violence without rules - and not "preparing to be the best BJJ player". Hence the comments about stepping on mats and blue belts and so on.

[VNV]

... BJJ guys in particular are still going through these growing pains...

However, during my time with BJJ (somewhat recently), "escape" was always in the curriculum. The gym is run by a blackbelt with close ties to the Gracies. Chet is a scrappy farm kid who did the equivalent of memorizing the blue book to learn JJ in his early years (wore out VHS tapes and took assiduous notes): Instructors — Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Fort Wayne