Problems with the squat

[francesco.decaro]

Measuring my bodyfat by eyeballing it, though I had a scan a few months back that I don't think was accurate and it came back at 24%. Either way i've got a belly etc. I wanted to get the weight loss done because I was about 260 and cut down from there, its not body dysmorphia I know I am under-muscled but I am also carrying extra fat I don't want to exacerbate. If I'm still adding weight to my squat and deadlift consistently in a deficit why change it for now? Ive got no issues eating when I let myself it's just that I'm 19 and want to live a bit without worrying about my belly and fat bouncing around. And I also read that the body builds muscle more efficiently at lower bodyfats, as in the muscle : fat ratio is better.

What does your body do to your muscle when you go in a caloric deficit and lose weight?
It's the opposite of building, isn't it?

You're worrying about your "belly" because you think that's what girls value, and it's not true, even at 19. If you're with a girl who tells you she doesn't want you cause you have a belly, she's dumb, just get a better one.
This stuff happens a lot with people who used to be overweight and remain used to the idea of having a belly. You lost 50lbs of bodyweight, good for you, now it's time to build your body back.

[RealGlass]

Where in the shoulder does it hurt exactly? What does it feel like? Is something getting compressed? Is something getting stretched? Is it deep in the joint? Is it somewhere in the muscle or tendons? That's the kind of stuff that's needed to even have a chance of someone over the internet even being able to identify what's going on.

It is on the part of the shoulder where the bar sits, it does sort of feel like something is being stretched, it feels muscular to me, not too deep in the shoulder. I have a feeling my squat grip was way too wide. I did my squats last night and it felt a lot better and stable with a narrower grip and keeping my elbows down. The pain came back but I think that it came back because I hadnt let it fully heal. Time will tell.

Thanks Mark have read it, I'm also halfway through practical programming right now and really enjoying it.

Guys you're right I need to gain muscle and get stronger. I have some fat to lose as well. I'm eating at a 1000 or maybe a bit less deficit right now (I know it's extreme I just want to get the job done). I might even be above 20% bodyfat. I don't care about abs and have no ambitions of being a bodybuilder, though my midsection is like a balloon, if I ate my way to 270 it'd be spherical. Is there any reason why I should start eating like an animal now when my deadlifts still go up 10lbs every time (at 375), and my squats still go up 5lbs (270), if I'm losing fat and getting stronger without failing reps, why eat more now? Why not just start eating more when my deadlifts and squats stall?

[Mark Rippetoe]

This has already been addressed, thousands of times: A Clarification | Mark Rippetoe

[Maybach]

Not eating enough during strength training doesn't start with you missing reps: it starts with soreness and pain and injury. THEN you miss reps because of those things. This shoulder thing won't get better on a 1000 calorie (!) deficit. It'll get worse. And then when you start to do lifts that are actually challenging, the accumulated fatigue will burn you out hard.

You are 6'4" and 200 pounds. You are skinny. Maybe "skinny-fat" if you want to use a trendy term. But a 5'7" guy shouldn't be able to comfortably bench press you. Come on. Your eyes are lying to you. Your training log won't. I did the massive weight loss thing too, I get it's a trip (especially if you're not used to the feelings of deficit related fatigue). But there is in fact only one right answer, and that is that a 6'4", 200 pound guy needs to gain weight to run an NLP. You need to be heavier than you are now if you want to be any stronger than you are now. If you were already 235? Maybe you could hang out there for a bit. But you're not.

If you really won't eat enough to support an NLP, just don't do the NLP. If you're not eating to gain strength, the NLP is just beating you up. Go, I dunno, do conditioning, or just do one set of each lift each week to maintain strength and diet the weight off.

[francesco.decaro]

It is on the part of the shoulder where the bar sits, it does sort of feel like something is being stretched, it feels muscular to me, not too deep in the shoulder. I have a feeling my squat grip was way too wide. I did my squats last night and it felt a lot better and stable with a narrower grip and keeping my elbows down. The pain came back but I think that it came back because I hadnt let it fully heal. Time will tell.

Thanks Mark have read it, I'm also halfway through practical programming right now and really enjoying it.

Guys you're right I need to gain muscle and get stronger. I have some fat to lose as well. I'm eating at a 1000 or maybe a bit less deficit right now (I know it's extreme I just want to get the job done). I might even be above 20% bodyfat. I don't care about abs and have no ambitions of being a bodybuilder, though my midsection is like a balloon, if I ate my way to 270 it'd be spherical. Is there any reason why I should start eating like an animal now when my deadlifts still go up 10lbs every time (at 375), and my squats still go up 5lbs (270), if I'm losing fat and getting stronger without failing reps, why eat more now? Why not just start eating more when my deadlifts and squats stall?

There is no reason for you to be in a 1000 kcal deficit and force your lifts to stall way sooner than they would otherwise. No one is telling you to gain 70lbs of fat, you're dramatizing the situation. We're just telling you to stop obsessing about losing weight and your "belly", and just focus on performance. You don't need to gain 70lbs to increase your performance and strength efficiently.

You wanna be stubborn, go ahead, my guess is if you stay in a 1000kcal deficit, in 6 workouts or less you will stall, unless you were eating 4000kcal a day before your diet.

[RealGlass]

Ok everyone thanks for the help. I feel really skinny but also like my bodyfat is high. Maybe I just tend to store fat in my midsection genetically, I have no muscle compared to others who can lift numbers similar to me which is annoying. I've decided that I'll start eating in a surplus 2 weeks from now, in the meantime I'm going to read up on how many calories I should be eating to support the NLP (any advice?) and fix my form issues. Will break my diet with a pizza in 2 weeks and focus on nothing else until I'm squatting in the 500s and pulling in the 600s. Any advice appreciated.

[CommanderFun]

It is on the part of the shoulder where the bar sits, it does sort of feel like something is being stretched, it feels muscular to me, not too deep in the shoulder. I have a feeling my squat grip was way too wide. I did my squats last night and it felt a lot better and stable with a narrower grip and keeping my elbows down. The pain came back but I think that it came back because I hadnt let it fully heal. Time will tell.

Thanks Mark have read it, I'm also halfway through practical programming right now and really enjoying it.

Guys you're right I need to gain muscle and get stronger. I have some fat to lose as well. I'm eating at a 1000 or maybe a bit less deficit right now (I know it's extreme I just want to get the job done). I might even be above 20% bodyfat. I don't care about abs and have no ambitions of being a bodybuilder, though my midsection is like a balloon, if I ate my way to 270 it'd be spherical. Is there any reason why I should start eating like an animal now when my deadlifts still go up 10lbs every time (at 375), and my squats still go up 5lbs (270), if I'm losing fat and getting stronger without failing reps, why eat more now? Why not just start eating more when my deadlifts and squats stall?

When they actually hit the point of missing reps, you will probably have a lot more ground to make up for in terms of the recovery deficit. You need to learn to look at "losing fat" and "gaining muscle" as an either/or type scenario, because in the long run it is. On top of that, when you are doing one, it sets back the other a little bit. Gaining muscle gains a little fat. Losing fat loses a little muscle.

I still don't know how you're self-evaluating bodyfat percentage. It seems very unlikely to me you are carrying an enormous amount of fat around at that weight and height. If you were that kind of skinny-fat, you probably wouldn't be capable of lifting much. Your deadlift and squat aren't bad, especially if they are still going up at novice rates. You probably have significantly more lower body muscle than upper body muscle, if I had to guess. Pick whether you want to lose fat or gain muscle right now, and if you pick losing fat, know that an LP will be unsustainable while you eat like that.

[francesco.decaro]

Ok everyone thanks for the help. I feel really skinny but also like my bodyfat is high. Maybe I just tend to store fat in my midsection genetically, I have no muscle compared to others who can lift numbers similar to me which is annoying. I've decided that I'll start eating in a surplus 2 weeks from now, in the meantime I'm going to read up on how many calories I should be eating to support the NLP (any advice?) and fix my form issues. Will break my diet with a pizza in 2 weeks and focus on nothing else until I'm squatting in the 500s and pulling in the 600s. Any advice appreciated.

Read our advices more than once, because it doesn't seem like you're getting it.
It also seems like you won't change your mind about this, so just do what you want and report back the data, actual data, not self-perceptions.
You're 19, you got your whole life ahead of you, it's not that important if you mess with the program for a while, just make sure to learn from it

[BareSteel]

Shot in the dark, but RG, certain posture can give the illusion of a protruding belly. For example, standing with anterior pelvic tilt and excessive lordosis gives the appearance of one’s belly sticking out. That could explain why your perception is at odds with what others have suggested in this thread.

[RealGlass]

Ok so I listened to the advice I was given here and started eating more, and I now have a couple of questions. My squat started becoming a slog at 270 pounds while I was eating in quite a steep deficit so I de-loaded 5 pounds, did the 3x5 (and deloaded the other lifts 5 pounds as well), I then ate heaps over the next two days 2 pounds of ground beef each day, protein shakes, eggs etc. I never stuffed myself to the point where I was extremely uncomfortable but I definitely never went hungry and I thought I might have even overdone it with the eating. Next workout comes and I'm expecting to smash all the reps because it's the first time I've fuelled my body properly in ages but I still stalled at 270 pounds again missing 2 reps. I couldn't complete the other lifts because I hurt my shoulder again (seeing a coach soon). So I'm wondering, why didnt eating do anything for my recovery at all? is it because I need to give my body time to re-establish itself and get out of a recovery deficit I have induced? With the fact that I've just started eating properly in mind, should I do a proper 10% deload on all my lifts and work my way up again, or should I attempt 270 again on my next squat workout?

My second question is related to the infamous 'you should weigh 300 pounds' video clip where Mark you told a man with a near identical body composition and strength level to me (205ish pounds or so) to get his bodyweight up to 270 over the course of several months. I'm trying to use the advice given to him, and I'm struggling to reconcile the dietary advice you gave him with the dietary advice you wrote in your 'A Clarification'. You told him 'A man who is 6'4 215 can get to be 225 in a week', but I don't understand the benefit of doing this when I'm already at least 20% bodyfat. Given the fact that I'm at least 20% bodyfat and I hate cutting weight should I still 'get myself kicked out of the all you can eat' for the duration of my novice linear progression, or should I eat at a mild surplus since my body already has excess energy stored as fat? If I go too hard on the weight gain for now won't my intermediate progress halt for a long time when I have to diet off the bodyfat I gained which would be atleast 25% if I went up to 270? I want to squat 4 plates so I will do what I have to, apologies if this is an annoying question.