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Thread: Move on from NLP (lower body)?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Default Move on from NLP (lower body)?

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    Hi,

    Male, H: 6'2", BW 218lbs, A:31

    I believe I am nearing the end of NLP for lower body but partially due to patellar tendonitis.

    My recent sessions were (In kgs):
    S140-3x5, OHP-92-3x5, D155x5
    S110-2x5, B94-3x5, PC-77.5-5x3
    S142.5-3x5, OHP-93-3x5, D157.5x5

    I reset my press recently due to not microloading early enough and I have broken through my previous sticking point with plenty more progress left I feel.

    I developed patellar tendonitis, which is common experience for me over the years, a few weeks ago. Videoed myself and realised I was very much in my knees. I am trying to correct the issue without box squatting for now (I'd be more than willing to try this if you think its necessary) and sitting back more seems to definitely be alleviating some of the pain but it's still present (again, I'm aware of the recovery cycle of this particular 'injury'. Likely due to two big ol lumps on the front of my knees caused by OSD in my teens). I have recently added in a light day to try and help with this as the pain is still bas enough to put me off squatting 48 hours later. The 142.5 squat while not a complete limit was still 'grindy' enough to think about moving on or a small reset due to the slight injury.

    My question is where I go from here. In my mind I could either:
    1) reset and give my knees (mainly right) a chance to heel with slightly lighter weights with the new correct form (not sure if this data point is useful but when i did NLP at 24 I got to a 157.5kg-3x5 squat and didn't eat correctly!)
    2) start to progress to an intermediate programme now

    Any help would be much appreciated and thank you for previous help Mark, Southernlifter and Maybach.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Default

    As long as you have been on this board, you have not learned that we need to see a video?

  3. #3
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    Feb 2012
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    I have, unfortunately I have an odd setup at the moment and my last couple of sessions have been done in the back garden and night with almost no light.

    I did 145kg 3x5 tonight and this is the link to my last set: 145kg squat - 3 sets 5 reps. 22.02.24. - YouTube.

    Thanks Rip.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Default

    You cannot end you NLP at that weight (considering your height).

  5. #5
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    You should listen to Starting Strength Gyms Podcast #59. It contains some of the most important principles of intermediate programming, and should indicate to you why "should I move on from the NLP" is kind of an ill-conceived question. The light day is in fact the first step towards intermediate squat programming, so you have *started* to move to intermediate programming already. Subsequent steps are taken when needed to keep progress going.

    To that last point, I am not sure how the onset of a tendonitis indicates a need for a progression to intermediate programming. Tendonitis isn't necessarily, or even commonly, directly related to increasing the load at a certain pace, so I'm uncertain that slowing down the pace of increases will somehow fix it.

    If you need to program around it (say, by resetting the weight and running up box squats), then you might, but that's not the same as intermediate programming changes.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybach View Post
    To that last point, I am not sure how the onset of a tendonitis indicates a need for a progression to intermediate programming. Tendonitis isn't necessarily, or even commonly, directly related to increasing the load at a certain pace, so I'm uncertain that slowing down the pace of increases will somehow fix it.
    If anything, the onset of tendonitis indicates a form problem, not the need for a programming change.

  7. #7
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    May 2018
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    Hi Dunk. I think it has become clear that moving towards intermediate programming IS NOT the solution to your problems.

    Check your diet, have your technique checked through videos, and maybe you could also have your knee seen by a traumatologist.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybach View Post
    You should listen to Starting Strength Gyms Podcast #59. It contains some of the most important principles of intermediate programming, and should indicate to you why "should I move on from the NLP" is kind of an ill-conceived question. The light day is in fact the first step towards intermediate squat programming, so you have *started* to move to intermediate programming already. Subsequent steps are taken when needed to keep progress going.

    To that last point, I am not sure how the onset of a tendonitis indicates a need for a progression to intermediate programming. Tendonitis isn't necessarily, or even commonly, directly related to increasing the load at a certain pace, so I'm uncertain that slowing down the pace of increases will somehow fix it.

    If you need to program around it (say, by resetting the weight and running up box squats), then you might, but that's not the same as intermediate programming changes.
    Hi Maybach, I have listened to that podcast episode but didn't explain further in my post about every detail as I didn't want to clutter up my main points. I understand the progression from novice to intermediate and how these aren't just 'cut off' points for the next programme. My thinking was more that I am being forced EITHER to more intermediate like programming as the form change and lack of rebound mean that I am beginning to stall OR (and I was always leaning to this) resetting with the new form in the hopes that the tendonitis heals up a bit ready for me to make more progress further down the line in 2-3+ weeks and possibly using box squats if necessary. Although, I think I've already experienced less pain since I've starting using my arse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernLifter View Post
    Hi Dunk. I think it has become clear that moving towards intermediate programming IS NOT the solution to your problems.

    Check your diet, have your technique checked through videos, and maybe you could also have your knee seen by a traumatologist.
    I agree, I guess I'll do a small reset on the squat and see what happens. I am not sure seeing a doctor (I've not heard of a traumatologist) is necessary as I've had tendonitis for over a decade on and off and the thought of going to see a GP for a referral (I'm in the UK) is laughable in the state it's currently in. My partner is an emergency nurse and from the stories I regularly hear from her I really hope no one I am close to gets ill/into an accident in the NHS's current form.

    I didn't get any comments from my squat video, my untrained eyes couldn't see any glaringly obvious issues (apologies for the non-ideal height).

    Diet has been going well but clearly the 4.5k+ calories are now not adequate to continue putting on weight. I'll sort this out now.

    Thank you!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunk View Post
    Hi Maybach, I have listened to that podcast episode but didn't explain further in my post about every detail as I didn't want to clutter up my main points. I understand the progression from novice to intermediate and how these aren't just 'cut off' points for the next programme. My thinking was more that I am being forced EITHER to more intermediate like programming as the form change and lack of rebound mean that I am beginning to stall OR (and I was always leaning to this) resetting with the new form in the hopes that the tendonitis heals up a bit ready for me to make more progress further down the line in 2-3+ weeks and possibly using box squats if necessary. Although, I think I've already experienced less pain since I've starting using my arse.



    I agree, I guess I'll do a small reset on the squat and see what happens. I am not sure seeing a doctor (I've not heard of a traumatologist) is necessary as I've had tendonitis for over a decade on and off and the thought of going to see a GP for a referral (I'm in the UK) is laughable in the state it's currently in. My partner is an emergency nurse and from the stories I regularly hear from her I really hope no one I am close to gets ill/into an accident in the NHS's current form.

    I didn't get any comments from my squat video, my untrained eyes couldn't see any glaringly obvious issues (apologies for the non-ideal height).

    Diet has been going well but clearly the 4.5k+ calories are now not adequate to continue putting on weight. I'll sort this out now.

    Thank you!
    You´re welcome, mate.

    I am not an expert on technique but I think you need more hip drive.

    I also think you should put your knee pads under your pants, not over them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernLifter View Post
    You´re welcome, mate.

    I am not an expert on technique but I think you need more hip drive.

    I also think you should put your knee pads under your pants, not over them.
    Yeah, hip drive doesn't feel strong with the new correct form. I'm assuming this will come with time and me thinking about it whilst squatting.

    But it makes me look like a super hero? This is purely so I can whip them off after squatting without having to take my trousers down.

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