inb4 just stop running inb4 just stop running

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Thread: inb4 just stop running

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    San Diego
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    Default inb4 just stop running

    • wichita falls texas june seminar date
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    I like running. It's essentially like shooting heroin but you can still leave your house without funny looks. That being said, I recently discovered Starting Strength and finally learned how to actually train with a barbell without shredding my knees. I rather enjoy this too. So now I'm going to try combining barbell training while training for the upcoming marathon that I conveniently forgot was coming up. I'm also going to add this into a full-time school and work schedule, because I refuse to learn from my past mistakes. Since there isn't a lot of overlap between barbell training and long-distance running on the internet and everyone keeps telling me to use kettlebells or bodyweight, I figured I would record my progress so that everyone can laugh along with me as I ensure my knees never make it past 40.
    Day 0 of program:
    21 years old, male, 6'0", 149 lbs.
    PRs:
    Mile: 5:54
    5K: 19:13
    13.1: 1:47:43
    Squat: 115 x 5
    Deadlift: 185 x 5
    Press: 80 x 5
    Bench Press: 150 x 5

    Race Date: May 31, 2020 (Rock 'n Roll San Diego)
    A Goal: sub 4:00:00
    B Goal: 4:30:00
    C Goal: finish

    Training Program:
    Sunday - Rest
    Monday - Speed/Hill workout
    Tuesday - Strength, Recovery run
    Wednesday - Moderate
    Thursday - Strength, Recovery run
    Friday - Light run
    Saturday - Long run

    This ramps up to about 40 miles per week, at which point barbell volume will decrease to compensate.

    Some questions that will probably come up:
    Did you read the book?
    Yes. I also listened to the audiobook. It's an experience I would highly recommend.
    Why are you so light? Why won't you eat?
    Again, running is a lot like heroin. Lots of fun and makes you do stupid, stupid things. I'm eating 3000Kcal or more now that my head's in the right place, so don't worry too much about me.
    Strength training and LSD are inherently conflicting activities. Why not just do SSNLP and come back once you're strong?
    I've been wanting to do this race for a while now and I'm finally in a place where I can do it. Right now running is priority.
    Why do this?
    Heroin, man. I'm serious.

    Wish me luck.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Syracuse, NY
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    425

    Default

    WOW

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    597

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    My wife runs.....marathons, halfs, trail races, etc.
    The weight training helps quite a bit, especially since she never really weight-trained before.

    I think all of the force production "a running stride is just a 10,000,000RM event" arguments are silly and nonsensical.

    That said, I think the biggest positive in her case from the weight training was injury prevention and over durability.
    That alone made it worth her while.
    I think too, what you probably need to a run a block with minimal running involved ... just one time a season.

    Maybe 16-20 weeks the first time around. 3 times a week. With very little running involved. Eating a lot of calories.
    The following seasons(years) maybe an 8 week strength/barbell block; then rest of the season (year), could fiddle-faddle 2 times a week or something.
    4 weeks leading up a to race ... drop it almost completely.

    (all these time frames^ are arbitrary, and just throw out there to convey the general idea)

    --not a coach

  4. #4
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    Jan 2020
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    San Diego
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    I think too, what you probably need to a run a block with minimal running involved ... just one time a season.
    Yeah, that's more or less my plan. I've got one or two shorter events I want to do, but as it starts to get colder I'm going to hang the shoes up for a while and really get after strength. This is a race I've wanted to do for a while though, and it's a pretty big deal for me, so I want to build up some technical proficiency with lifting without necessarily pursing maximum progression.
    I think all of the force production "a running stride is just a 10,000,000RM event" arguments are silly and nonsensical.
    Absolutely correct. The force production element of running is really dependent on technique and mental ability, and at a certian point it doesn't really make sense to push the ground harder to go faster. If you want to be more "force-productive" runner, you use sprints and hill training. The durability and mental benefits that you get though are massively worth it, and that's why it's always been a part of my program. The problem is that all of my past coaches and internet advice have always told me do high-intensity, low weight circuits. What I want to do now is figure out how to program barbell training into a race training schedule and hopefully figure out what volume and routine should look like. Life's an adventure, right?
    Thanks for the advice, though. For "not a coach" it happens to make a lot of sense.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    San Diego
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    2/3/2020 - Day 1
    Weigh In: 147.9 lbs

    Speedwork - Yasso 800s
    800m x 4 @ 7:30 pace, 250m resting pace x 3, 2 miles warmup + cooldown
    4.75 miles total

    Yasso 800s are a great workout for pounding a pace into your head, which is extremely useful for long distances where pacing really starts to matter. They're not physically difficult, I think even most untrained runners could probably do the full set of 10, but it kicks you in and out of your goal pace often enough that it becomes natural to return to that pace.
    The Real History of the Yasso 800s | Runner's World

    Not quite to Gallon of Milk a Day levels yet, but I've gladly signed on to Glass of Milk a Day. Special thanks to the happy California cows that make us all a whole lot stronger.
    IMG_20200203_195238649.jpg

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Try looking up Dr. Mike Zourdos' early work, as in before he became the godfather of Daily Undulating Periodization. He used to compete in powerlifting and marathons at the same time. Not the same day, but you know... Anyway, he managed to pull it off somehow. I don't think he does that anymore, but he has (or at least had) stuff online about it. I don't know how quickly he responds to inquiries, but you can always try reaching out to him too.

    Either way, good luck to you. I'll be following your log to see how it goes.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    130

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    Good luck! Not to hijack but I wanted to pass along another training option, not to confuse your planned program but to give an alternative if you find you are accumulating too much stress.

    It's called the Maffetone Method. The concept is to slow down and build a base for endurance running at a lower heart rate so you can recover better and go faster with less energy down the road. The formula is 180 (-) your age (plus some modifiers), so your simplified training heart rate for long runs would be 180 - 21 = 159 bmp. Google it out for details.

  8. #8
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    Jan 2020
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    San Diego
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    Thanks so much, you guys. Google machine is already heated up and I'm finding some really good stuff. Really appreciate the support.

    2/4/20 - Day 2
    Strength Training
    Squat - 115 x 5 x 3
    Press - 85x5x1, 80 x 5 x 2
    Deadlift - 195 x 5 x 1
    Recovery run - 3 miles
    Rough day today. Had some weird tightness in my left quad, caused me to lead with my right leg on the squat and couldn't keep balance. The weight wasn't heavy, but I had a hard time controlling it once I got to rep 5. Actually failed on one of them because I almost fell over. Deadlift also was a grind, might have jumped too far. Totally rounded my back on the last two reps.
    The good news is the press went pretty well. Would have continued with reps of 85 across, but my form wasn't great. Need to keep practicing but my form has really improved here.
    Things to improve:
    -Breathing is off. I'm not holding as I go down because I'm too focused on other elements.
    -Stance is about a foot too wide on the squat, which isn't helping balance problems any.
    -The first thing to go before I start rounding my back is my head angle. I look up instead of forwards, then drop the hips and go to town.
    -Warm up a little slower. Taking more practice reps to lock in form is going to smooth out mechanics.
    Plan for next session:
    -Take more warmup sets (and record them)
    -Feet closer in the squat, make valsalva a conscious part of each movement.
    -Take a closer look at deadlift weight, may have over-extended if I can't properly lift the set.
    Goals:
    Squat: 115x5x3 cleanly, without the wobblies.
    Press 85x5x3
    Deadlift 185x1, if form is perfect pull 195x1 with the same attitude. If form breaks, stop at 185 and perform 185x5 with proper form

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    San Diego
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    Life comes at you fast sometimes.
    Tuesday night, I was skating home when I ran over a crack in the sidewalk going about .45 miles an hour. I took a header into the concrete as a result, and hit some special spot on your head that makes your body start convulsing and cramping in incredibly painful ways. The real kind of 10/10 pain. I ended up passing out after about a minute of that, and when I woke up somebody had found me and called 911. An ambulance ride and CAT scan later, I finally got discharged around midnight, and got ready to feel really sore. Needless to say, this has impinged my goals for this week a little bit.

    2/5/20 - Day 3
    Mobility
    1.5 mile warmup
    Mobility work (strideouts, high skips, etc.)
    1 mile cooldown, 2.5 mile total

    Planned for a 5 miler today, and could probably execute, but there's not much to be gained outside of self-flagellation. Getting my legs moving is still critical to recovery, and putting them through the full ROM helped work out a lot of knots.
    Still hitting the gym tomorrow, we'll see how that one goes. Ibuprofen is going to be my best friend now.

  10. #10
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    Jan 2020
    Location
    San Diego
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    starting strength coach development program
    2/6/20
    Strength
    1 mi stationary bike, leg swings, trunk twist (it was cold inside)
    Squat:
    Bar x 5 x 2, 65 x 3
    115 x 5 x 3
    Press:
    Bar x 5 x 2, 65 x 3
    85 x 5, 85 x 2, 80 x 3, 80 x 5
    Deadlift:
    95 x 3
    135x3
    185 x 1
    200 x 5

    Really strong improvements on squat and deadlift today. Success:
    -Back angle and extension on squat improved, completely stable
    -Deadlift was strong throughout, kept hips high and pulled, not pushed
    Struggles:
    Press form still rough. Still not getting a vertical bar path.
    Not breathing between reps on squats and presses, need to be better with intentionality there.
    Goals:
    Squat 135 x 5 x 3, press 85 x 5 x 3, deadlift 220 x 5 x 1
    Breathe in between each rep, no exceptions
    Bonus: practice power cleans

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