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  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar october 2022
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    Please post if you do find that. Not that I'm interested in working in haltings as a second pull once I get back into a normal HLM schedule, as they are truly no joke, just like you said, but conceptually that would be different than what I thought they would be for.

    Ms tiny & mighty reminded me of an article that Nick published back in 2015 about alternating haltings/racks as usual, but alternatively adding full deadlifts into the mix every third week. I do like that concept, as deadlifts are my favorite of the lifts, as much as they humble me. Perhaps for that reason.

  2. #12
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    May 2020
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    Wednesday, January 19, 2022

    Overhead press

    45x5x2
    70x5
    95x3
    120x1
    140x1
    158x2x3
    (rest: 6+ min.)

    Squat

    45x5x2
    95x5
    135x3
    185x1
    225x1
    255x1
    285x5x3 (pause)
    (rest: 7+ min.)

    Glad to finally make it to the gym this week. I've had some mild shoulder pain, mostly outside on the right. Felt it more toward the front on the first press work set. Tightening up the start position helped. All the reps went up. Some were very slow, but some were more in the groove. Got 157 before Christmas, so with my spotty attendance, it's taken almost a month to move my press up. It appears I've been able to do enough to avoid too much de-training. Hopefully, things will get less sporadic.

    Squat seemed O.K. Short night, so this was very tiring. Did the first two squat warmups before the presses, and the rest after.

  3. #13
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    Jan 2021
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    Gatineau, QC
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Killmond View Post

    The key takeaway on form was cranking up the tightness. On programming the key point was managing the overall stress of the squat and the deadlift together.

    My attempt at managing the stress was (1) increasing training days to four days per week, but not squatting and deadlifting on the same day, and (2) deloading the squat and babying it.
    Hi! Would you be willing to go into more detail about this? How much of a deload? What do you mean by "babying" the squat? This approach might be what I need to do to unfuck my deadlift.

  4. #14
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    May 2020
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    Dear tiny&mighty,

    I've read your log, which I like very much. It seems to me that, since you are deadlifting 2x bodyweight, you've gotten to the point where some actual coaching advice may be needed.

    That said, in your recent video, it seemed that there was loss of back tension (i.e., flexion, your back bent) at the start of each rep.

    Again, coaching advice would be good, but flexion like that could be due to, among other things, (1) a bad day, (2) not setting the back properly (your start position looked right, so a start issue might be tightening the hamstrings, etc., to keep the back tight), (3) back and hips not being strong enough to maintain the start position (that's the halting deadlift video from Coach Lindley) or (4) too much back/hip/CNS stress from the squat and deadlift together.

    I would hate to actually deload the squat if I didn't have to (never want to give up massive gainzz). For those of us whose training can be, shall we say, inconsistent, it is often the case that each lift is not currently in PR range. Through my period of working on the deadlift, I deemphasized the squat by adding only one pound per workout--since it was not near a PR, there was no thought of deloading, just slowing it down. Deloading did occur when I had been out of the gym, and one time when I had to do a Starr rehab.

    Along with splitting the deadlift and squat to different days (which it appears you already do) and doing them only twice a week, this was enough to get my deadlift moving.

    In fairness, if you are doing a volume day and an intensity day on squat, it wouldn't seem likely you could continue that at the same time as emphasizing deadlift.

    I may not understand your tonnage numbers. How would you get to 4555 on intensity day--that seems like too much. 210x3x3 is 1890. Not sure it would make sense to do an additional 2665 in warmups. A sufficient warmup scheme could be (1510):

    45x5x2
    95x5
    135x3
    175x1
    210x3x3

    One way to manage stress, if you are doing more warmup than that, is to consider cutting down on the warmups. Same goes for deadlift, probably something like:

    95x4
    135x2
    175x1
    205x1
    237.5x3x3
    Last edited by J. Killmond; 01-21-2022 at 05:38 PM. Reason: omission, typo

  5. #15
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    Jan 2021
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    Gatineau, QC
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    Dead Mr. Killmond,

    Thank you very much for your response. I guess I have been doing some overkill in the warm-up department! I'm such an amatrice... For your entertainment:

    Last intensity squat:
    45 X 5
    75 X 5
    105 X 5
    135 X 5
    165 X 3
    185 X 2
    210 X 3, 3, 3

    Last deadlift session:
    85 X 5
    125 X 5
    155 X 5
    185 X 3
    215 X 1
    237.5 X 3, 0, 0

    I had pretty much decided to give up on the squat until I read this. Now I'm torn again but, at the very least, I think I need a week off or two to give my low back a break since it's been oddly sensitive lately. By "off" I mean very light in both volume and intensity.

    The flexion in my back has been an ongoing issue for quite some time but is always limited to the work sets. Though I was hoping to fix it while continuing to add weight to the bar, I am coming to the conclusion that a bit of a reset might be necessary. In any case, watching videos of my nasty-looking deadlifts has been a bit depressing. My confidence could benefit from seeing a less heavy but better looking set for a change.

    Thanks again for your response!

  6. #16
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    May 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny&mighty View Post
    The flexion in my back has been an ongoing issue for quite some time but is always limited to the work sets. Though I was hoping to fix it while continuing to add weight to the bar, I am coming to the conclusion that a bit of a reset might be necessary.
    Truly a stunning amount of warmup tonnage. Regardless, there is no doubt that, for the 237.5 triple, you locked out each rep. You don't need to rewatch the video to see that. I would cut the warmups back and see what happens before considering a deload. Your deadlift workout was 4732.5 total tonnage, with 2595 of that being warmups. My scheme would be only 1030 of warmups with the same work sets, a difference of 1565--give it a try, it may help!

  7. #17
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    May 2020
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    Friday, January 21, 2022

    Pin press

    45x5x2
    70x5
    95x3
    120x1
    145x5
    (rest: 6+ min.)

    Squat

    45x5x2
    95x5
    135x3
    185x1
    225x1
    260x1
    290x5x3 (pause) PR
    (rest: 7+ min.)

    After lunch I mysteriously got fired up to go to the gym. Rather than waiting for the feeling to pass, I decided to pin press (which has a novelty aspect, plus you can tell yourself it's helping) and squat again.

    The stiffness I had from Wednesday felt like the kind that is improved by squatting, plus it would kick off the PR run I'm hoping for as I shrink the 130 lb. gap I currently have between my squat and deadlift.

    Everything went fine, including two of my gym pals walking in unexpectedly. As a bonus, I also can take Saturday off with a clear conscience.

    Afterwards, I got a further inspiration, which is to do only a deadlift triple on Sunday. That dispelled the looming mental burden, as I was not looking forward to 420. A triple should be more manageable.

    In 2019, I had a lot of success doing a triple and then coming back the next time and doing the set of 5x. That's the programming that got me over the 300 barrier (along with the 4-day split and babying my squat).

    With various ups-and-downs, I rode the triple-first idea up to 365x5 at the end of 2020. In 2021, I introduced haltings, swapping them out for the triple while retaining the 5x deadlift set, which worked fine. But now, I'm feeling the pressure a little at my current numbers, so I would very much welcome the mental break of attempting a PR weight first for a triple.

    I'm envisioning that two weeks of pulling would be a set of 5x haltings, a deadlift triple, a set of 5x haltings (+5lbs), and a set of 5x deadlift (same weight as the previous triple), then +5lbs on the deadlift triple and repeat. But first, let's see what happens on Sunday.

  8. #18
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    May 2020
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    Sunday, Jan. 23, 2022

    Bench press

    45x5x2
    80x5
    115x3
    150x1
    185x1
    218x5x3 PR
    (rest: 7+ min.)

    Deadlift

    135x4
    225x2
    275x1
    325x1
    375x1
    420x0
    (rest: 10 min.)

    Decided to attempt the 218 bench again. I cannot unrack that much, but a friend gave me perfect liftoffs. I tried a speedier descent and a very moderate bounce off the chest, which worked well enough. Bar path wasn't great, but it didn't feel too bad. I will go for 219 next week.

    Deadlift looked promising, but I got the bar an inch or two off the ground and that was it (nothing on the second attempt). Should have given it the 5-second effort (per Coach Lewis), but it's been a long week. Next time then, for the planned 420 triple.
    Last edited by J. Killmond; 01-23-2022 at 10:52 PM. Reason: wrong attribution

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Killmond View Post
    Sunday, Jan. 23, 2022

    Bench press

    45x5x2
    80x5
    115x3
    150x1
    185x1
    218x5x3 PR
    (rest: 7+ min.)

    Decided to attempt the 218 bench again. I cannot unrack that much, but a friend gave me perfect liftoffs. I tried a speedier descent and a very moderate bounce off the chest, which worked well enough. Bar path wasn't great, but it didn't feel too bad. I will go for 219 next week.
    Great work there!

    As far as unracking limit sets, this video by Phil Meggers was a game-changer for me, as I lift alone in my garage. It might help, even with an assistant to help with the liftoff.

  10. #20
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    Jun 2020
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    Georgia, USA
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    starting strength coach development program
    I never had a hand off ever. I have always lifted alone and when younger and stronger up to 310. Back then I only had a "death hook" that I could get the bar to if I failed a rep which I did at times. Now that I am old and weak I have safety arms but still no arch in back. It's what you get used to I guess.

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