Bustermonkey2's Progress on 5 3 1

[Róbert Kovács]

Going into last "week" of cycle 2 of 5/3/1 I have noticed squat and press regression. I feel like deadlift and bench have made progress- these are the same things Seti noticed. Because I'm only doing 5/3/1 three times /week, I don't think I'm getting enough volume on squats in particular. After this cycle, I'm going to increase workouts to 4 days/week and do squats after deadlifts at 5 x 5 for volume.

The similarity is eerie. Although I must add that I did 5/3/1 twice a week. Workout A: Squat, Bench, assistance Workout B: Deadlift, press, assistance, but I had almost the same experience, squat regressed, press stalled or slightly regressed, bench improved, and deadlift slightly improved.

I'm curious about what will happen when you change the routine. I'm guessing the added Squat volume will be the deciding factor, and the +1 workout not that much, it might even hamper recovery.

[bustermonkey2]

I haven't posted today's workout yet but I tried to do 5 x 5 squats following deadlift and failed miserably. Did 5 reps at 225, then 5 reps at 315, then only 3 reps at 315 and a backoff set of 5 at 225. I was way too tired after deadlift workout to get decent squats in. I may add the 5 x 5 squats on press day since that seems to take the least out of me.

[Róbert Kovács]

Good idea, perhaps doing them before the press would be even better.

[bustermonkey2]

Week 3
June 24 2011
Press
5 x 125
3 x 140
2 x 155

Dips w/ 35 lbs
5 x 10

Chinups
5 x 10, 1 x 9

June 27
Deadlift
5 x 285
3 x 320
2 x 365 (This was 5 lbs more than I was planning to use.)

Squats
5 x 225
2 x 5 x 315
3 x 315
5 x 225 (very disappointed- expected to do 5 sets at 315 but way too exhausted after deadlifts)

Good mornings
3 x 12 x 65

Hanging Leg Raises
10, 6, 5 (very tired by this point)

June 29
Bench
5 x 210
3 x 240
3 x 275 (Big PR here- weight was supposed to be 265 but I thought, what the hell)

Dumbbell Bench
15 x 60
15 x 60
11 x 60

Dumbbell Row
10 x 60
10 x 60
20 x 60

July 2
Squat
5 x 295
3 x 330
2 x 370 (this is very disappointing considering I was doing 3 sets of 5 at 360 before I started 5/3/1 two months ago- continued squat regression I think due to lack of volume)

Leg Press
3 x 15 x 225

Leg Curl
3 x 10 x 80

At this point I am continuing to see some regression on squats. I am going to add 5 x 5 squats on press day to increase volume as well as try to shift to 4 days/week. I am also shifting to three sets of assistance exercises with last set AMRAP because I feel like I am too fatigued by 5 sets to do decent job on last assistance exercise(s). I feel like I am making good progress on bench, ok progress on deadlift and my press has somewhat stalled. I doubt that I will ever have a good press due to lack or range of motion on wrist due to surgery (only can bend wrist about 45 degrees).

[Róbert Kovács]

As you've said: take back on the assistance exercises, they can harm recovery as much as aid in progression. I'm looking forward to how the added squats will work. Keep up the good work!

[bustermonkey2]

July 7 2011
Squats 5 x 5 x 315 (pretty hard)

Press
5 x 110, 5 x 125, 5 x 145

Dips w/ 45 lbs- 10, 10, 8
Chinups 3 x 10

July 8
Deadlift
5 x 225
5 x 295
2, 1 at 335 Huge failure-supposed to be 1 set of 5. Couldn't pull it and felt terrible. This is what happens when I tried to do deadlifts the day after 5 x 5 on squats. I am going to make sure to get at least 1 day in between after this. After this failure skipped all accessory exercises.

July 12
Bench
5 x 190, 5 x 220, 6 x 250 Making good progress on bench.

Dumbbell Bench w/ 65 lbs- 15, 15, 9

Dumbbell Row w/ 65 lbs- 10, 10, 20

July 13
Squat
5x 260, 5 x 300, 5 x 340 Not impressive considering I was doing 3 sets of 5 reps at 360 before 5/3/1 a few months ago. I'm hoping that adding the 5 x 5 on press day will help.

Leg Press w/ 230 lbs- 15, 15, 18

Leg Curl w/ 80 lbs- 10, 10, 12


July 18- Press Day
Squat 5 x 5 x 320 (very hard)

Press- 3 x 120, 3 x 135, 4 x 150

dips w/ 45 lbs- 10, 10, 10

chinups- 10, 10, 12

[Róbert Kovács]

Just brainstorming here, but you might want to modify the squat sessions this way:

Keep the volume 5x5 or perhaps 8x3, and use the 5/3/1 squat days as 5RM, 3RM and 1RM tests, by decreasing the two first work sets to doubles or singles. I'm thinking that the original intention in the program that these first 2 worksets at 5,5 3,3 and 5,3 are supposed to give additional volume, which you don't need that much if you have an additional volume squat day. But then again this makes the setup pretty much a Texas Method just for squats.

I don't know. It might be good, but if your original intention with 5/3/1 was that you wanted a less taxing/tiring training program, then this might go against that.

[bustermonkey2]

Thanks Seti. I was already thinking about how adding the 5 x 5 squats made it into a quasi Texas method. I am getting to the end of my third 5/3/1 cycle and it looks like I need that volume on squats to progress. In fact, I don't see that I have made too much progress at all on 5/3/1 compared to my SS numbers three months ago. I'm considering switching to more of a Texas method on both squats and bench next month. I'm thinking about:
Monday (Volume Day): Squats 5 x 5, Bench 5 x 5, Good Mornings, Rows
Wednesday (Light Day): Light Squats 2 sets, Press 3 x 5, Dips, Chinups, Hanging Leg Raises
Friday (Intensity Day): 3RM Squats, 3RM Bench, 3RM Deadlift

I think this would give me a better balance to fit my needs. The big concern on this is whether I'd be able to make progress on deadlifts after 3RM on squat and bench since I've had problems with being too exhausted by squats for deadlifts. Programming in deadlifts for me is tough because I can't do them well if I'm tired from previous exercises and I'm exhausted after I do them, making subsequent exercises very difficult.

[Róbert Kovács]

Well, I'm also doing deadlifts where you're planning to do them, and found so far that they fit there much better than on Volume day.

If you have the time and opportunity you could try splitting a day's workout into Squat + Bench, and later that day Deadlift. That would give you extra rest before the Deadlift.

[bustermonkey2]

July 22
Deadlift
3 x 275
3 x 315
3 x 355
1 x 405 Big PR here- felt like I had a lot left after my top set at 355. At 405 it wasn't pretty- hitching along the way- but I got it.

Goodmornings 3 x 10 x 95

Hanging Leg Raise 10, 5, 5

July 23
Bench
3 x 205
3 x 235
4 x 265

Dumbbell Bench w/ 65 lbs 10, 10, 15

Dumbbell Row w/ 70 lbs 10,10, 12


July 27
Squat
3 x 280
3 x 320
3 x 360- Pretty easy because I wanted to be fully recovered for volume squats next workout.

Leg Press w/ 235 lbs 10,10,20

Leg Curl w/ 90 lbs 10,10,10



July 30

Volume Squats w/ 325 lbs 5,5,3 (slipped and almost fell so racked it), 5, 3 (couldn't complete last 2 reps)

Press
5 x 125
5 x 145
2 x 160 Not bad considering how tired I felt after squats

Dips w/ 45 lbs 10,10,10

Chinups 10,10,10 (very tired by this point)

A little over a week before I was thinking of switching to Texas method from 5/3/1 due to lack of progress/regression. Now I'm going to stick with 5/3/1 for at least another month. I feel like the 405 deadlift PR indicates continued progress, especially since I did it after my regular deadlift workout and there's no way I could have done that 3 months ago. Also, adding in the 5 x 5 squats on press day seems to be helping get enough volume in to stop further regression on squat. Honestly, I don't see how anyone coming from SS is going to make much progress on squat in 5/3/1 unless they add more squat volume elsewhere (maybe boring but big or extra squats on another day).