To Beef or not To Beef

[Devyn Stewart]

Thanks for the support, guys. I appreciate it.

I'm pretty determined at this point to get on that deload. I'm fairly sure I haven't torn anything in my shoulder or anything of the like, so hopefully the pain will die down pretty quickly. Not exactly sure how I'm going to deload, but since I think intensity caused the problems, I'm going to cut intensity, something normally advised against. I'm feeling less "I hate the world" now, so I can see a bit more clearly. I'll have a really light week this week, and we'll see how my body responds. I'm also playing with the idea of perhaps not performing a maximal attempt every week. Potentially more on that later.

abg, I was going to perform SLDL once a week on HLM. I think I'm going to go in a different direction with programming, but the idea of having some lighter deadlifting in instead of 5RM over and over appeals to me.

About SRA: I never meant to disregard the model entirely. My thought was just that you can't really compare an SRA cycle from a novice, the case the model was clearly made for, to an SRA cycle for an advanced lifter. The principle stressor is much more clean in the novice, and an immediate recovery begins. In an advanced lifter, you're accruing stress and recovering from it and accruing some more stress and slightly overreaching then managing fatigue until you finally hit a PR. I don't think the simple curve the SRA cycle is normally illustrated with is a good explanation for that.

[Adam Gottstein]

Devyn, you're doing awesome. There may be those things that are generally recommended, like not dropping intensity, but you do what you need to do. If you are constantly lifting into severe pain, it makes lifting no fun and arguably not safe depending on the pain. If a deload makes things physically and mentally better, it is the right choice. A deload would also play into losing some weight if you wanted to do a cut right now, or even adjusting your calories closer to maintenance.

You're absolutely right on SRA (at least to my understanding). To me it's not that SRA ever goes away, but like you said - the comparison to between novice and advanced lifter is definitely different. The former is a much more vertical adaptation rate line on a chart (assuming up is higher ), and it is very easy to describe since minimal complexity results in adaptation over a very short period of time. As that adaptation line becomes more horizontal, the time between adaptation becomes longer, higher stress needs to be introduced in regards to volume and intensity, and as you mentioned perfectly, fatigue is introduced and needs to be managed in addition to recovery.

Regarding SLDL and DL, I was just suggesting swapping the day they are on. SLDL would still be medium intensity and DL high intensity. The thought here (and it's not my own, I've seen it on the boards here) is that after doing 5x5 heavy squats and 5x5 heavy bench, you may just be drained for doing 1x5 heavy deads. By moving them to Friday, and even putting them first, you are fresh for this potentially very heavy pull. Being only 1 set should make it less of an impact on your medium squats and bench alternative. I only brought it up because you seemed disappointed about deads on your heavy day.

[Devyn Stewart]

Yeah, that was actually my plan here soon. I was planning on training the SLDL on the squat heavy days, which is why I skipped them yesterday. I think the problem might be a bit simpler, though. I just don't think 1x5 is a sufficient training stimulus for me anymore, along with the fact that it's getting harder to recover from. I think that's what's resulting in me being 10-20 pounds weaker on some days than others. I don't get a great adaptive response, and I'm still fatigued from the last set of five. So, yeah, I'll be rethinking how I'm doing things. Now that I'm an intermediate, I'm considering having some more liberty with my goals, one of them being not carrying around 235 lbs at ~20+% body fat anymore.

[positronbomb]

It's quite possible even likely that you might respond better to a different rep scheme, or maybe your body needs stimulus to different rep ranges, HLM is somewhat like that but you're not doing the various rep ranges you're just adjusting the load.

You could trial something like sets of 5, on one day, sets of 10 another day, and sets or a single set of 20 another day, training 3 days a week.
Run each rep range like you would on linear progression, adding a small amount of weight each week. Over time you will see which rep range gives you the best success, or possibly just varying reps each workout will allow your body to recover better and have a synergistic effect.

Something worth thinking about. It might be more mentally rewarding reaching a 5 rep max, a 10 rep max, and a 20 rep max (all at the same time) than that of HLM where the goal is slways improving your 5 rep max.

It's definitely something I will probably try out myself when the time is right.

[Devyn Stewart]

I think you've got the right idea, but a 20 rep deadlift set sounds insane. My main training goal is strength, possibly even some hypertrophy (I believe they go hand-in-hand), so 20 rep deadlifts might not be for me. I was thinking maybe multiple lighter sets of 5 or whatever the rep range is. Like, rather than going for 350x5 and then trying again when I fail, maybe dropping to 315 for 4x4 or something would be a better stimulus. Maybe even some timed singles could do the trick.

I ran Candito's intermediate program a long time ago and really enjoyed it. I'm not sure it's the best program in the world or got me the best results, but I made quantifiable progress, and I never felt injured or discouraged from failure. I think I enjoy the sort of "block" mindset that masks my variations in ability from workout to workout a bit more. And I also enjoy a day every few weeks to really demonstrate that I've gotten stronger. I've been piecing together something from Greg Nuckols' ideas, so we'll see how things go after my deload.

[positronbomb]

Yeah, the key is listen to your own subconcious mind and try different things till you find something that works best for you.
I certainly wouldn't be doing multiple sets of 20 just a single. I enjoy the different challenges that each rep range provides, for me it's very rewarding.

Varying reps may actually be the key to improving your strength.

[Dillon Spencer]

If you're thinking about dabbling in different rep ranges, have you checked out any of Andy Baker's 8/5/2 stuff?

[positronbomb]

If you're thinking about dabbling in different rep ranges, have you checked out any of Andy Baker's 8/5/2 stuff?

Low reps high intensity is what is actually causing his injuries.

2 rep sets is way to intense for his genetics, at least that's what his training history is showing.

[Dillon Spencer]

Possibly, but it's only 3 sets of 2 every third week. One major lift per day, and a bunch of assistance/accessory stuff in higher rep ranges. Might be a way to keep getting stronger without such frequent exposure to heavy sets of 5 or less. I know Devyn has competed, and I'd imagine would like to in the future if he can. Need at least some exposure to the heavy shit for that, and sets of 10 or 20 aren't going to do a whole heck of a lot to drive up maximal strength. Just an idea.

[Devyn Stewart]

I'm a big fan of Andy Baker's programming, but most of his stuff costs, which I don't blame him for.

I'm not so sure that intensity itself is what's causing me to be so beaten up. I felt the same way at the end of LP last time, and I think it's just grinding out bone on bone sets, like, 3-4 times a workout 3x/week. I think I'd do well to perhaps go a bit heavier than LP had me, just planned and not maximally for multiple sets across.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying by for "my genetics", but to me it sounds like you're saying that I'm at least moderately genetically gifted for power, and I don't think that I am. I've got decent numbers for just coming off LP, but I had well over an entire year of "training" heavy squats and benches before I even tried LP the first time. I think that might be one reason for the injuries: my numbers are much higher than they would have been had I done LP as a rank novice.

I'd sure like to enter a powerlifting competition in the future, but I'm not so sure that's going to be in the financial or time budget anytime soon. Right now I'm just worried about long-term strength progress and being at a bit more of a reasonable weight.