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Thread: Andy Baker's 14-week KISS made complicated

  1. #1
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    Default Andy Baker's 14-week KISS made complicated

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    This is a continuation of Resolution 2019 - Get Stronger , where I set my new year's resolution of strength training and did my LP. Yes, my lifts are low for end of LP and I have low "genetic potential", but I'm assuming it ended properly, since SSOC made the decision to end it. This plan begins April 27th, when my contract with SSOC ends. I'm still tweaking the plan a bit, and am open to suggestions.

    Current Stats:
    Age: 48
    Height: 5'10"
    Weight: 180lb
    Waist: 34"
    Body Fat: 17%ish
    Squat PR: 230x3 - Goal for year is 275x5
    Bench PR: 200x1 - Goal for year is 200x5
    Press PR: 112.5x3 - Goal for year is 135x5
    Deadlift PR: 310x3 - Goal for year is 325x5
    Chin PR: 203.5x3 - Goal for year is 245x5 (including bodyweight)

    My goals for the year on the main lifts are basically on-track, but chins are behind, and my squat form is poor, which is holding me back on squat. I'm a motor moron and learn technique very, very, very slowly.

    My main goals for these 14 weeks are:
    1. Don't detrain or overtrain the main lifts. If the main lifts progress slowly or stay level while I'm meeting the other goals, that's OK - I'll implement a more "normal" plan for the main lifts such as HLM after this cycle is over.
    2. Refine squat form. I want a program with lots of squat practice and enough spare time that I can carefully watch my videos between each set and make corrections, and set me up for squat progress in the next cycle.
    3. Progress chins. Chins are behind, so to reach my new year's resolution goals, I can't put progress on hold like the other lifts.
    4. Lower blood sugar. That means adding volume and conditioning. It also means a maintenence level diet - I learned on LP that a persistent calorie surplus is bad for my blood sugar.

    So, to meet goal #1 of don't detrain or overtrain, I went to the simplest and shortest template I could find, Andy Baker's KISS template: K.I.S.S. Training Program - Andy Baker . I started with that, but added an extra day a week for press (it only has squat/bench/deadlift), which he mentions is OK in the blog comments area.

    Squatting once a week won't meet goal #2, so I'm adding "Squat Practice" 2-3 days per week. This is meant to be practice - not a training stress. I'm hoping I get strong enough that 150-180lb squats will work here - just heavy enough to learn technique. I may also use light pin/paused/tempo squats once in a while if I feel they'll help me with a particular part of the technique. I figure this is OK with the KISS plan, since it isn't a training stress.

    For goal #3, I'm basing that off of various articles and posts from Andy Baker and Niki Sims. Intensity/Weighted chins and hammer curls on Monday, and Volume/unweighted chins and barbell curls on Thursday, trying to progress 2.5lb/week. I'll feel like such a vain bastard doing curls, but supposedly they help chins. Yes, I will do them in the squat rack. I figure this is also OK with the KISS program, as he says accessory lifts may be added, but aren't needed. Chins and curls are accessory lifts...

    For goal #4, I'll do some kind of HIIT once a week and a LISS-ish cardio-boxing class once a week. This wasn't mentioned in the KISS blog post, but it's generally assumed intermediate lifters do conditioning.

    My thinking is that it the program looks OK, but the issues are:
    • 5x5 deadlifts worry me a bit, may overtrain. Although it's high volume, it isn't near my current max, and it is Andy's template, so I figure I'm probably OK. If it was anyone else's, I might not trust that.
    • If it isn't working, I won't know quickly - the KISS plan is easy at first and I'm not scheduled to hit a PR until late June. If I'm getting weaker, I won't know until then.
    • It doesn't resemble anything from Practical Programming, and is NOT something PP wouldn't recommend for an early intermediate lifter.
    • Volume may not be high enough to help blood sugar, but I'll get to see the result of reducing volume at the end. That will let me know if high volume is superior to low volume for blood sugar.
    • I don't know my 1RM, which the template is based off of. I'm using 1RM calculators based off my PRs above, and assuming my 1RM will go up 2lb/week on lower body lifts and 1lb/week on upper body lifts. That seems pretty conservative for an early intermediate lifter.


    Detailed chart in next post...
    Last edited by Adam Levine; 04-18-2019 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    So, the total 14-week template looks like this:
    Code:
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | Week of | Monday          | Tuesday         | Wednesday      | Thursday            | Friday            |
    |         | Hammer Curl +   | KISS Press +    | LISS +         | KISS Bench +        | KISS Deadlift +   |
    |         | KISS Squats +   | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Unweighted Chins +  | Squat Practice +  |
    |         | Weighted Chins  |                 |                | Barbell Curl        | HIIT              |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 29-Apr  | Squat 180x5x5   | Press 85x5x5    | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 152.5x5x5     | Dead 242.5x5x5    |
    |         | Chin 205x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 6-May   | Squat 185x5x5   | Press 87.5x5x5  | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 157.5x5x5     | Dead 250x5x5      |
    |         | Chin 190x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 13-May  | Squat 192.5x5x5 | Press 90x5x5    | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 162.5x5x5     | Dead 257.5x5x5    |
    |         | Chin 210x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 20-May  | Squat 197.5x5x5 | Press 95x5x5    | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 167.5x5x5     | Dead 267.5x5x5    |
    |         | Chin 195x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 27-May  | Squat 205x5x5   | Press 97.5x5x5  | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 172.5x5x5     | Dead 275x5x5      |
    |         | Chin 215x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 3-Jun   | Squat 212.5x5x5 | Press 100x5x5   | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 177.5x5x5     | Dead 282.5x5x5    |
    |         | Chin 200x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 10-Jun  | Squat 217.5x4x4 | Press 105x4x4   | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 182.5x4x4     | Dead 292.5x4x4    |
    |         | Chin 220x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 17-Jun  | Squat 225x4x4   | Press 107.5x4x4 | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 187.5x4x4     | Dead 300x4x4      |
    |         | Chin 205x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 24-Jun  | Squat 232.5x4x4 | Press 110x4x4   | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 192.5x4x4     | Dead 310x4x4      |
    |         | Chin 225x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 1-Jul   | Squat 237.5x3x3 | Press 115x3x3   | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 197.5x3x3     | Dead 317.5x3x3    |
    |         | Chin 210x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 8-Jul   | Squat 245x3x3   | Press 117.5x3x3 | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 202.5x3x3     | Dead 327.5x3x3    |
    |         | Chin 230x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 15-Jul  | Squat 252.5x2x2 | Press 120x2x2   | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 207.5x2x2     | Dead 335x2x2      |
    |         | Chin 215x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 22-Jul  | Squat 260x2x2   | Press 125x2x2   | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 212.5x2x2     | Dead 345x2x2      |
    |         | Chin 230x3x5    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+
    | 29-Jul  | Squat 270x1     | Press 130x1     | Cardio Boxing  | Bench 220x1         | Dead 357.5x1      |
    |         | Chin 220x5x3    | Squat Practice  | Squat Practice | Chins 4 sets, RPE 9 | Squat Practice    |
    |         | Hammer 3x10     |                 |                | Curl 3x10           | Treadmill Sprints |
    +---------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------+---------------------+-------------------+

  3. #3
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    Welcome to the exciting world of intermediate programming Adam!

    I'm curious why you went so off script with your choice of program though. You've highlighted some pretty significant issues, given that it's your first foray into intermediate programming. Specifically, that you won't be attempting a PR until late June, and you won't know if the program is working until then.

    Why not something like an HLM? You can still squat three times per week and PR weekly. It also seems to be the common recommendation when cutting, so I assume it would work well at maintenance calories as well.

  4. #4
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    For conditioning I end my workout with a 500 metre row. Absolute 100% effort, close to vomiting.
    It is less than 2 minutes but I find this really helps.
    I also like wall balls using 20 pound ball. 100 as fast as you can go.
    I always try to beat my best time.

    It doesn't need to be long just go as fast as possible.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon Spencer View Post
    Welcome to the exciting world of intermediate programming Adam!

    I'm curious why you went so off script with your choice of program though. You've highlighted some pretty significant issues, given that it's your first foray into intermediate programming. Specifically, that you won't be attempting a PR until late June, and you won't know if the program is working until then.

    Why not something like an HLM? You can still squat three times per week and PR weekly. It also seems to be the common recommendation when cutting, so I assume it would work well at maintenance calories as well.
    I'm on HLM for squat now, programmed by SSOC. Squatting 3x/week, but the heavy and medium days are so heavy it's hard to concentrate on technique, and it shows in my lifts. I feel like I only get one "technique day" per week, the light squat day. I'm also rushed every workout due to too many competing goals - chins, conditioning, and the main lifts is too much for my schedule. This plan lightens the time requirements for the main lifts.

    I'm worried about general safety - elbow and bicep tendonitis are setting in, and my knees sometimes hurt when I don't squat right. I want to go conservative on the weight for awhile and refine technique before ramping up again. This plan lets me do that, even if it isn't optimal for progressing the main lifts. Rip himself has told me to be careful (and implied that maybe I should either find a full-time coach or give up), so I'm trying to be careful, but I'm not giving up.

    Also, when I say "not optimal", that doesn't mean it won't work. Andy says it works, and he knows what he's talking about, so I'm expecting some strength increase in the main lifts - just not the 5lb/week on squat and deadlift that you might expect from a "normal" early intermediate program that would have a lot more frequency with each lift.

    -->Adam
    Last edited by Adam Levine; 04-18-2019 at 07:15 PM.

  6. #6
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    Better to go slow and avoid injuries.
    I alternate squat days with lunges to give my back a break.

    I really like the look of Andy's program ie the progression based on percentages of your 1 rep max.
    Really gives your body a chance to adapt to the training intensity, and build up to a max effort.

    Seems like a good idea to avoid injury.

  7. #7
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    Also looking at the schedule again. I may not need HIIT on 5x5 deadlift days. I've never done 5x5 deadlifts, but that sounds like it already is HIIT.

  8. #8
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    Hey Adam, welcome to the training log boards. I’ve taken a good look at the K.i.s.s. Program and am attracted to its logic and simplicity. I’m at the point where any type of PRs are difficult to come by, I have to manipulate my body into getting stronger. I’ve decided to go back to a TSFOSB organization, mainly because it’ll only expose me to higher periods of volume ( 5x5) for just a couple of weeks at a time, and I believe progress may actually be faster with this approach, whereas K.I.S.S. Has you maybe increasing you’re 1RM by 1-5% after 14 weeks( granted you’d most likely hit some sets across PRs throughout those weeks). Up until last year I used an HLM taper style approach ( the HLM example in PPST3rd actually), but got to the point where spending fairly long periods in a given set/rep scheme just drove me into the dust. I need more periodization at this point. But I do like the K.I.S.S. Template and the Rotating LP for a late intermediate lifter. Brutally simple, but yet with the potential to be very effective. I’ll check in time to time to see how it’s going. May the gainz be with you.

  9. #9
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    Default Body and Diet Stats for Resolution Week 18

    Body and Diet Stats for Resolution Week 18
    Notes:
    - Squat form goal for next week is to fix grip and upper back.
    - Passover and bad planning affected diet this week.
    - Last week of SSOC club-level coaching. New lifting program next week.

    Body Stats:
    Age: 48
    Height: 5'9.7"
    Weight: 180.7lb (Down 0.2 lb)
    Neck: 15.75" (Unchanged)
    Waist: 34.25" (Up 1/4")
    Body Fat (by Navy Calculator): 16.6% (Up 0.5%)
    LBM (by Navy Calculator): 151lb (Down 1lb)
    Average morning/fasting blood sugar: 115 (Not great...)
    Total Weight Gain: 6.2lb
    Total LBM Gain: 6lb

    Diet Stats:
    Average calories/day: 2,375
    Average protein/day: 224g
    Average carbs/day: 221g
    Average fat/day: 72g
    Supplementation and drugs:
    - 5,000 IU of Vitamin D per day
    - 1 Flintsones multivitamin/day
    - 10mg Atorvastatin/2 days
    - 1 OTC Omeprazole/2 days
    - 5g Creatine per day
    - 15tsp benefiber per day
    - 1000mcg Chromium Picolinate per day
    - 2g+ DHA and EPA per day, in the form of canned salmon

  10. #10
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    Default Workout 53 of 150 - Monday 4/29 - Grip Week Pretest

    starting strength coach development program
    Workout 53 of 150 - Monday 4/29 - Grip Week Pretest
    My new program is more about improving squat technique than strength. If it works, I can focus on strength in the next cycle, but if I don't fix my squat, I'm more likely to get injured than stronger.

    Each week has ONE form goal, and Monday is my start point. This week, I want to fix my grip so my elbows stop hurting. I'm not trying to fix everything at once.

    Twice this week I'll do lightweight squat practice - light enough that I can concentrate on technique rather than weight. Then, next Monday, I'll see if I've improved my grip on a heavier set and pick a new goal for next week.

    Chins totally sucked today.

    Workout Sequence:
    - KISS Squat: 45x5x2, 85x5, 125x3, 165x2, 172.5x5x5
    - Weighted Chins:
    ---- (185.8 + 19.25) = 205.05x1 (Missed last 2 reps)
    ---- (185.8 + 17.5) = 203.3x3
    ---- (185.3 + 17.5) = 202.8x3x2
    ---- (185.3 + 17.5) = 202.8x2 (Missed last rep)
    - Hammer Curls (in the squat rack)
    --- 25x10x2 (each arm)
    --- 25x10x9R,8L

    Adam Levine on Instagram: “Workout 53 of 150 Grip week pretest. My new program is more about improving squat technique than strength. If it works, I can focus on…”

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