Training at home for a bigger Press & bigger Deadlift! Training at home for a bigger Press & bigger Deadlift! - Page 2

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Thread: Training at home for a bigger Press & bigger Deadlift!

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Quebec City
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    14

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    • wichita falls texas march seminar date
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    Hi Mr Carson!
    I am entirely self-taught, like many weightlifters were back in the day. My technique is still crude, but not as crude as it was three years ago (anyway, Yuri Vlasov's technique was crude in comparison to today's elite).

    It's taken me quite a while to become able to do decent pulls with anything above 250 lb. Since I train at home, I do a lot of clean/snatch pulls, which is by far the safest way I can train the quick lifts. I have done power snatches using a split style, and my heavier cleans are also done in a shallow split. My main goal is to keep my muscle clean stronger than my max press. There's also the option of doing a continental clean with a towel tucked in the belt (an old trick from weightlifters who trained at home), but my press is not strong enough for me to have this problem.

    The gym closest to my home is quite pricey, especially for short-term things.

    I am married to Quebec City (I also met my wife there in 2005).

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Quebec City
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    14

    Default Monday January 6th -- Short floor press session

    Today, my lower back needs rest, and I am giving it complete rest so it's back at full strength in a couple of days. To any new lifter reading this: it's vital to let your lower back recover if you feel fatigue there; ignoring lower back fatigue is a common cause for more serious problems (and the serious problems will set you back much more than a single session).

    Warm-up = push-ups, x 5 x 2 sets

    Floor Press from blocks, close grip (by default, I use the same grip as my Clean & Press; I sometimes go a little wider to spare my elbows)
    128 lb x 5 x 2 sets
    158 x 5 (very explosive reps) this was the first work set, as I count every lift above 50% (my current max is 290 lb for this lift).
    188 x 6
    200 x 6 RPE 5
    210 x 6 RPE 6
    220 x 8 RPE 7.5 (felt strong)

    Lower body = some stretching. The session lasted about 40 min.
    Last edited by dlocas; 01-07-2020 at 02:19 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    NJ
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    3

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlocas View Post
    Saturday January 4th

    Afternoon session
    Clean & Press -- went to a top single, then did volume work at 77%
    85 lb x 5 x 2 sets
    128 x 3 x 2 sets
    148 x 3
    178 x 1
    200 x 1 (84%) RPE 7.5
    219 x 1 (92%) RPE 8.5
    229 x 1 (96%) RPE 9.75
    183 x 3 x 8 sets (77%) RPE 8 -- In my own training, Prilepin's Table has worked just fine up to this day. Doing singles at 90%+ is so much less taxing on that lift than from deadlifting. The 8-10 triples around 75-80% used to be recommended by John Barrs, who was a British weightlifting coach throughout the 1930's, 1940's and 1950's (Dinosaur Training: An Old School Pressing Program!). I started doing this with 135 lb when my max press was stuck at 185; it worked… and it's worked for many, many lifters before.

    My 229-lb Press...


    Snatch High Pulls
    210 x 3 x 2 sets
    239 x 3
    269 x 3
    300 x 3 (PR)
    269 x 3 -- total of 6 x 3 lifts, tonnage = 4,491 lb & avg. bar weight = 250 lb.

    My Snatch Pull PR...



    Evening session

    Deadlift
    138 x 5 x 2 sets
    229 x 5
    280 x 4 x 2 sets (shoulders in the "lat pocket" / lat pulling down to make torso "shorter" = lift felt shorter and easier)
    320 x 4
    350 x 4
    390 x 1
    440 x 1 (RPE 8) This week's goal is to accumulate 50 deadlifts at & above 50% of max, over three sessions. This session was 18 total lifts. My 50% = 280.

    One-hand Pinch Lift
    Pair of 25s "deep dish" x 6 (PR), & x 3 -- 9 total reps (each hand)



    My total reps have gone from 7 to 9 over three pinch-lift sessions. I do this lift only once every 7-10 days because it's extremely intense work for all hand tissues, especially the thumb. Anything more frequent made me weaker instead of stronger; my right hand is still not back at full strength (I overworked it in summer & fall).
    Nice lifting Dom. When you did the 8 sets of 3 on the press, were you doing this 3 times a week? How high did you take it before you retested your max? Thanks again.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Quebec City
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    14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kip Tozzi View Post
    Nice lifting Dom. When you did the 8 sets of 3 on the press, were you doing this 3 times a week? How high did you take it before you retested your max? Thanks again.
    Since I am an anxious type of lifter, I tend to do a lot of volume… Yes, I did 8-10 sets of 3 three times on some weeks. When I did this, I did not do any other pressing movements, except for some occasional dumbbell pressing. If I recall well, my training weights went from 135 to 160 in 2015, stalled around 165 in 2016, went up to 175 in 2017 before stalling again, then got from 165 to 200 over the course of 2018 (I took a step back and ended up stronger). The heaviest session of triples I ever did was 8 sets of 3 with 205 lb* (January 2019); it could have translated to a new PR, but I didn't test it (but I hit 220 for doubles at RPE 8.5, which was an absolute PR).

    * There is no way I would be able to repeat such a heavy session (85% of my max) three times in the same week. When the great John Davis used 10 triples, he never got above 280 lb, and this was at a time he was able to press 365 lb in reasonably good style (he was handling 77%... NOT 85%).

    Looking back, I am not sure this was the best way to progress; such a high volume at 80-85% tends to make me stall and isn't elbow friendly. Doubles have worked better in the 80-89% range (hence me saying Prilepin Table works well for strict pressing). When I PR'd at 234 lb in April 2018, I had been doing 8-10 doubles three times a week at 80-85% and no other pressing movement (I was within Prilepin's guidelines, albeit in the higher end of volume). When I hit 239 lb in December 2018, I had been doing ramp-ups, mostly triples, from 135 all the way to 200 lb (7-8 triples total), followed with a couple of singles at 210-215; this worked well and I felt strong on every session.

    When I do ramp ups across various intensity zones (from 50% to 90% or more), I don't think doing more than 25-30 total lifts is more productive. The sweet spot seems to be around 18-25 total lifts. I remember doing 135 x 3 x 2 sets, 155 x 3, 175 x 3, 185 x 2, 195 x 2, 205 x 2, 215 x 1 x 2 singles (20 total lifts) shortly before my 239-lb PR. Training too heavy for too many lifts makes me tired and weaker instead of stronger. The coach's job (self-coached = my job) is to find the sweet spot.

    From all these experiences, I gather that I need to do higher volumes at 65-80% on SOME weeks, then cut back on volume and do ramp-ups on some other weeks. I tend to gain more strength when I stay clear from failure with the heaviest sets at RPE 8 or 8.5 (and most sets at RPE 5-7). Lighter weights pressed with explosion do contribute to strength (especially when combined with a few heavier lifts thrown in) and are much easier on the joints. Since pressing isn't very taxing on the body as a whole, it is easy and tempting to do a huge amount of volume with heavy weights. In time, this takes its toll on elbows and shoulders.

    I would not advise to do 8 triples three times a week for weeks and months on end, because it gets really hard on the joints (and lower back once you start to move heavier weights). It is a tool that seems to work for someone who is already a seasoned presser and wants to improve.
    Last edited by dlocas; 01-09-2020 at 09:32 AM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Quebec City
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    Wednesday January 8th

    This session was very special, because I was experimenting with a different deadlift starting position.

    Clean & Press (strict) After some empty-bar warming up
    85 lb x 5 x 2 (gets the blood flowing)
    128 x 6
    148 x 6
    158 x 6 @ RPE 6
    168 x 7 @ RPE 7.5

    Deadlift -- I tried a new starting position, with the bar a little farther from the shins; instead of being directly over mid-foot, as is advised for average-sized lifters, the bar is a little bit more out in front, as is often seen when larger and/or taller lifters are doing conventional deadlifts. The experiment was a resounding success!
    229 x 3 x 2 sets -- These were practice sets to get the "feel" of the new stance. I did fewer sets than planned because the new technique feels very natural for me.
    280 x 6
    350 x 6 @ RPE 5 -- The bar was just flying up all by itself
    410 x 7 @ RPE 7 -- The easiest set I have ever done at that weight in training*; the first rep felt surprisingly light and went up very fast. I am definitely stronger with the new technique. I will post a video soon. For the record, I am 6'1" and 265 lb with average-short arms (the bar is at my crotch when I complete a deadlift).

    *I once hit 455 x 10 (RPE 9), but this was during a competition, after a full de-load week.

    Deadlift, 410 lb x 7 @ RPE 7 (my iron plates are a little on the heavy side; actual bar weight is more like 412 lb, but I am rounding the numbers for simplicity in training)


    Floor Press, close grip (I should have used a medium grip, because my elbows didn't agree with this!)
    158 x 6
    178 x 6
    200 x 6
    220 x 6 @ RPE 7

    Snatch Pulls from 6 inch blocks (a good choice for sparing the lower back at the end of a heavy session)
    150 x 5
    180 x 5
    210 x 5
    240 x 3
    270 x 3
    300 x 3
    270 x 3 -- as usual, most of the volume at lighter weights, but some more challenging sets; the goal isn't too see how heavy I can go, but to force myself to concentrate on technique and proper positioning.

    Grip work = I didn't use straps on my lighter deadlifts and clean pulls. The grip improves over time, somewhat "behind the scene" when enough such work is done.
    Last edited by dlocas; 01-11-2020 at 11:28 AM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    NJ
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    Thank you for the detailed response. Quite impressive that you reached 239lbs after previously plateauing. I am doing Hepburns 8 sets of 2-3 for both presses and inclines. Slow and steady will hopefully win the race. Have you ever done anything with ladders? Its another way of accumulating volume and mixes things up when you get stale. Your pulling is quite impressive as well. I like your style of training. Simple and effective. Thanks for sharing.

  7. #17
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    Mar 2014
    Location
    Quebec City
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kip Tozzi View Post
    Thanks for sharing.
    You're welcome!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Quebec City
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    14

    Default Saturday January 11th -- short, but very demanding pulling session

    My elbows need rest, so I was not doing any pressing today. I did an hour-long session that turned out quite demanding due to the sets of 5-6 and due to the uncharted weight I used on my last set of the day.

    Muscle Snatch -- I am forced to use light weights for this lift, but beware the energy ependiture! This lift has a VERY long range of motion -- the longest of all my lifts.
    (warm-up = squats with empty bar)
    85 lb muscle snatches x 5 x 2 sets
    130 x 6 RPE 5
    140 x 6 RPE 7 (my most productive sets are RPE 6-8, especially for the quick lifts)
    150 x 6 RPE 8 (on quick lifts, RPE 8 means I have to take a few seconds to reset between the last few reps, but the lifts aren't limit efforts)

    Snatch Pulls

    200 x 5
    240 x 5 @ RPE 7 -- I didn't use straps & regular grip for this set and the one at 200 lb... my grip was working hard toward the end of the set.
    280 x 5 @ RPE 9 (this means that my last reps required every last cent of my technique & focus -- I do very few sets like this one)

    Clean Pulls
    250 x 5 @ RPE 6 (I don't remember 250 lb feeling this light on a power pull)
    280 x 3 @ RPE 7
    310 x 3 @ RPE 8.5
    340 x 3 @ RPE 10 (this was a limit effort and I had trouble maintaining proper posture and technique -- I do this about once a month)


    This was the heaviest I ever went for a triple. My previous PR was a single at 350.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    97

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    No rack, no bench. Just a bar and some heavy weights. Classic old-school strong.

    It looks like you're working out in a home office...or a spare bedroom? I bet a wreck in there would do some damage.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    adelaide, south australia
    Posts
    326

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    starting strength coach development program
    Greetings Dlocas.
    What a delight to see an Olde Skool lifter, well versed in the old ways and doing them right now.
    I'm smart enough to know the clean and press works more muscle, athletically, than any other exercise.
    Doing them myself, and like you taking care the olympic lifts don't overtire the lower back.
    Fives in the olympic deadlift are as heavy as i venture.
    Will be 79 next month and still delighting in the snatch and clean and jerk.
    Your training is most impressive and inspiring.

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