Have you seen shoulder/back damage like this before? Have you seen shoulder/back damage like this before?

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Thread: Have you seen shoulder/back damage like this before?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    Question Have you seen shoulder/back damage like this before?

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    full back relaxed and flexed.jpg
    left side flexed vs right side flexed.jpg

    ~4mos ago, I injured my "shoulder" (more on this). A month into my injury not healing, I saw a PT and began doing the PT regimen, which I still do today. I saw a shoulder surgeon (Dr) a month ago and had an MRI done on my shoulder which revealed inflammation and a labrum tear.

    Monday, I began doing a a new PT program called "crossover symmetry" which uses resistance bands. One of the "red flags" the program describes, which might make a person a poor candidate for rehabbing a shoulder injury with PT alone, was back and/or shoulder asymetry. I never look at my back, so I examined myself in the mirror and I see I have a "dent" in my top-left upper back/shoulder. Basically, instead of 2 protruding scapula (healthy/normal), my left scapula doesn't protrude (the injured/hurting shoulder) and my right scapula does (the healthy shoulder).

    I'm going back to the shoulder surgeon on 7/1. I don't know how this was missed by the PT guy or the Dr. If it wasn't missed, I have no idea why it was never mentioned to me.

    Has anyone seen this kind of injury? Do you have any idea what specific muscles/etc may be damaged? Any experience seeing how people recover from this? I'm 34 and have 3 young kids I want to play sports with but my left shoulder pain makes life difficult.

    I stopped doing any kind of lifts other than PT, as prescribed by my current "crossover symmetry" program, but prior to the program I could/can overhead press as long as I don't shove my head under the bar to lock the movement out - as I long as I keep my upper back extended I'm OK. I can't do pushups or pullups. I can do chinups and neutral grip pullups without much or any pain. I can do deadlifts and rows without pain.

    Thanks for any help or suggestions you can give!

    David

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    North Texas
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    Since the light is directional in these photos, it's not possible to assess the defect you're referring to. Anything called "Crossover Symmetry" has to be effective, or the PT wouldn't have prescribed it. Post the MRI report.

  3. #3
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    Jun 2019
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    Hi, Mark! I'll request the MRI report and advise asap. BTW I really enjoyed Starting Strength (the book) and many YouTube videos you've created/participated in. You're great!

  4. #4
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    Mar 2014
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    Savannah GA, and White Springs FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    ... Anything called "Crossover Symmetry" has to be effective, or the PT wouldn't have prescribed it...
    Do I detect sarcasm?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    I have that exact injury

    The lower half of my right trapezius was entirely detached from the shoulder blade in a bad arm dislocation accident back in the end of 2011.

    When that muscle tore off the shoulder blade the controlling nerve got torn off too

    As a result every muscle cell at the lower part of my right trapezius was converted to fat. No nerve activity means that muscle cells turn to fat cells over time.

    Same thing happend to the rightmost edge of the middle trapezius where it attached on the far right of the shoulder blade

    MRI pictures can be found here (full archive runs in an EXE and has all my personal data. Dont worry though do what you want with it.):

    DetachedTrapezius - Google Drive

    The software archive displays it the best. It lets you scroll upp and down through the back and lets you pin point where the detachments are happening. The MRI crew made <-- arrows to the places where the detachment and muscle to fat conversion happened.

    the skelletröntgen is an xray of the spine made a few years previous when I was trying to figure out what the scoliosis from deadlift was caused by.

    You need surgery asap to reattach the muscle and the nerves. Doctors will bitch at you saying stupid shit like that "doesnt happen" and "I've never seen it before". Just power through it and get an MRI and a nerve function investigation. Tell them that if it doesnt exist then they have to explain what is going on and that they will get objective proof with the MRI and nerve function investigations. Feel free to share my pictures and results with the doc.

    I have had encounters with a handful of other people with this type of injury through the internet before and none of us have gotten it fixed. I would greatly apreciate if we could get in touch with each other and maybe confirm if we do have the same injury. Mostly because if one of us can get it fixed then that persons medical history could enable or aid the other ones treatment.

    PM me and ill give you contact information. Currently I've run out of national options for myself and are looking around for specialists in europe to get it treated. I'm looking at Dr. Lennard Funk right not that consults with the NHS in manchester, UK. He is a shoulder surgeon with a impressive publishing record.

    Also mark since you're in here it would be good to hear what lifts you can do with this type of injury. I'm trying out standing press, chinups, and squats now.

    When I deadlifted the spine got dislocated after a couple months and I now have a permanent bend in it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    Here is a video that demostrates how I first started to suspect that the lower half was detached:

    YouTube

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Olympia, WA
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    1,788

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCondit View Post
    full back relaxed and flexed.jpg
    left side flexed vs right side flexed.jpg

    ~4mos ago, I injured my "shoulder" (more on this). A month into my injury not healing, I saw a PT and began doing the PT regimen, which I still do today. I saw a shoulder surgeon (Dr) a month ago and had an MRI done on my shoulder which revealed inflammation and a labrum tear.

    Monday, I began doing a a new PT program called "crossover symmetry" which uses resistance bands. One of the "red flags" the program describes, which might make a person a poor candidate for rehabbing a shoulder injury with PT alone, was back and/or shoulder asymetry. I never look at my back, so I examined myself in the mirror and I see I have a "dent" in my top-left upper back/shoulder. Basically, instead of 2 protruding scapula (healthy/normal), my left scapula doesn't protrude (the injured/hurting shoulder) and my right scapula does (the healthy shoulder).

    I'm going back to the shoulder surgeon on 7/1. I don't know how this was missed by the PT guy or the Dr. If it wasn't missed, I have no idea why it was never mentioned to me.Have you considered the possibility that the physical exam of the PT and the orthopaedic surgeon was conclusive enough to them that they didn't give a crap about your asymmetry because it wasn't likely to be contributing to your shoulder pain. Do you really think that, as a PT myself, I should spend valuable clinic time pointing out everyone's asymmetry?

    Has anyone seen this kind of injury? Do you have any idea what specific muscles/etc may be damaged? Any experience seeing how people recover from this? I'm 34 and have 3 young kids I want to play sports with but my left shoulder pain makes life difficult. Does the precise "injury" really matter, or are the impairments the most important thing here?

    I stopped doing any kind of lifts other than PT, as prescribed by my current "crossover symmetry" program, but prior to the program I could/can overhead press as long as I don't shove my head under the bar to lock the movement out - as I long as I keep my upper back extended I'm OK. I can't do pushups or pullups. I can do chinups and neutral grip pullups without much or any pain. I can do deadlifts and rows without pain.This course of action is likely to suit you well. I'm an orthopaedic physical therapist, and probably more read up than most, and I have no idea what the hell this program is. But, if it brings joy to your lift to perform it, please continue.

    Thanks for any help or suggestions you can give!

    David
    Follow-up questions bolded in the quote.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    I forgot to mention that I dislocated my shoulder in a snowboarding accident and then went over a jump with the shoulder dislocated

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Olympia, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakob View Post
    I forgot to mention that I dislocated my shoulder in a snowboarding accident and then went over a jump with the shoulder dislocated
    I appreciate your contribution to this thread. I do want to point out, however, that your situation is entirely different. Even though you are drawing parallels between your own situation, and in turn, using your situation to explain the OPs situation, there just isn't any likely correlation to your injury and the presentation of the OP.

    You had a traumatic dislocation of your shoulder. The OP had an insidious onset of shoulder pain. It isn't likely he tore muscles off their attachments and did not know it happened until months later.

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