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Thread: High School Deadlift Injury/The Government Schools

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleMike View Post
    As a product of public education (before it really sucked), I think we are missing one very important element in the discussion on education. After a day in public school, I returned home to parents who interacted with me and taught me far more than school did. They actively worked to help educate me beyond the school context. For a variety of reasons, the responsibility for all education has been thrown to the public school teacher and the parents have been absolved of it. Take away any method of real discipline in the school on top and public schools go down the drain. I suspect everyone on this board has parents that whether they were home schooling or not, took a very defined interest in "teaching" their children to become adults, not just to pass a standardized test. The lack of real parental interaction for many others is a direct impact to the educational system.
    Yes. Same.

    Further, in the interest of incremental improvements, the presence or absence of a parent in the home when kid(s) arrive home from after school makes a significant difference to their education. Some kids can handle it, others cannot, all feel it.

    There are intermediary institutions which do an admirable job of bridging the gap, one example: Midtown Educational Foundation

  2. #52
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    From what I've read, those that appear to oppose home schooling, also appear to think that home schooling means the children live in isolation. As an outsider, viewing the home schooling in my area, the opposite is true. The home schooling my area is active with events, group learning and play time.

    I recall one couple in Maine that home schooled their two children. He was a captain on traditional vessels (Wooden Schooners) and she a ship's cook. Several months of the year, the children were aboard the schooner and the other rest at their farm. The mother did the academics, according to her, it took 3 hours a day to meet and exceed the Maine homeschooling curriculum. The rest of the time was spent living life. I interacted with those kids at both the farm and aboard the schooner and everything about those kids was positive.

  3. #53
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    Getting back to the original post, when are those "coaches" due to be quartered and drawn?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    In response to some of the others that posted in response to my original reply to this thread, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings on the topic of homeschooling. I took some time looking over the research available, and I was wrong. Educational outcomes are better for homeschooled children. There are no statistically significant differences between the social-emotional skills of homeschooled children and their publicly educated peers. I'm not sure why my personal experiences with children that are homeschooled has been the exact opposite of what the research suggests. It's possible that the students I work with are predisposed to social skill deficits because of the other difficulties they have (e.g. specific learning disabilities). There has been some research that showed a correlation between specific learning disabilities and deficits in other areas (e.g. executive functioning, social skills, etc.). It's also possible that the reason their parents are seeking outside assistance is because these deficits already existed and are not related to the fact that they are homeschooled. I can't say for sure. Again, I appreciate all of you taking the time to share your opinions/personal experiences related to the topic.
    NO! Shea!!! Don't do this to us! We can't have this rational, reasoned, well-articulated changing of opinion. The internet is a place for doubling down on opinion in the face of contrary evidence. You are doing it wrong.

  5. #55
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    I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who are / were teachers and almost as many family members, nearly all somewhere in the public school system. They have wildly different personalities and perspectives, but I hear a lot of the same stuff: The system is getting worse, teacher pay and benefits keep going down versus the private sector while schools invest in pointless projects, common core is terrible, environment is a huge headwind or tailwind relative to any classroom instruction, and a handful of bureaucrats and administrators are ruining their things for everyone.

    I work in education, but in the private sector and not in schools, and the problem of managing educational quality is shockingly one-dimensional: You hire the brightest people who are most passionate about teaching, give them the support they ask for (not what you think they need or ought to want), do basic quality checks, and otherwise leave them be. The public school system is doing something different at the moment, hopelessly tangled up in politics and government with all the baggage that comes with that. I feel that itís possible to have great schools if you just get the right people in and give them some latitude, and I think weíd be much better off fixing them than getting rid of them entirely, but itís going to be a massive project with no quick fixes. If I have kids, there is no way that I will be putting them into public schools, and Iím not so enthused about private schools either. If thereís a better option than homeschooling at the moment, then Iím not seeing it.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    How many public school teachers do you know? How many have to taken the time to sit down and speak with?
    I know lots of public school teachers. I go to church with them. Their kids play sports with my kids. Some are nice on a personal level. One of them is a pretty good friend that I play guitar with a lot. They all are indoctrinated to believe that they know how to best educate my children and that I am harming them by homeschooling them. Additionally, they will vote for any candidate that promises to give them more money, regardless of that candidate's other positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    Students with special needs who are being homeschooled, in many cases, lose access to the following FREE services - occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, assistive technology, ABA, etc. They also no longer are able to access free standardized diagnostic assessments in the areas of reading, written language, mathematics, adaptive skills, etc. Parents of homeschooled students with special needs will need to access these services in the private sector. If they have the money to do so, then the child may very well be better served in a homeschool environment. If the parents can't afford these services and the child needs them, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that the child is better served in a homeschool environment when all those services would be available to them in a public school environment.
    There are two issues with this statement. The first is that you are assuming that these services are necessary or that access to these services would provide better outcomes than homeschooling. Secondly, you assume the solution is for children with special needs to be placed in public school instead of OFFERING THE SERVICES TO CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF THEIR SCHOOLING STATUS. Homeschooling parents pay taxes and use less government funds than public school parents (because their children do not incur the cost of public education). In my school district a homeschooled child with special needs can receive services like every other child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Frazier View Post
    Well, Rip. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. An "absence of these services" is never going to be more beneficial to a child with special needs.

    In response to some of the others that posted in response to my original reply to this thread, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings on the topic of homeschooling. I took some time looking over the research available, and I was wrong. Educational outcomes are better for homeschooled children. There are no statistically significant differences between the social-emotional skills of homeschooled children and their publicly educated peers. I'm not sure why my personal experiences with children that are homeschooled has been the exact opposite of what the research suggests. It's possible that the students I work with are predisposed to social skill deficits because of the other difficulties they have (e.g. specific learning disabilities). There has been some research that showed a correlation between specific learning disabilities and deficits in other areas (e.g. executive functioning, social skills, etc.). It's also possible that the reason their parents are seeking outside assistance is because these deficits already existed and are not related to the fact that they are homeschooled. I can't say for sure. Again, I appreciate all of you taking the time to share your opinions/personal experiences related to the topic.
    Here's a question: why would a PROFESSIONAL educator who had such strong opinion on homeschooling be so woefully uninformed in regards to homeschooling outcomes?

    The PROFESSION of education is concerned with only one thing: making sure current, past, and future educators continue to be paid more and more for their services. This PROFESSION is unconcerned with actually educating children.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMueller View Post
    I think Tim Tebow being the poster child for a movement is a mark against it. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. Granted, his public proclamations of his faith may be off-putting for a lot of people, but in what other way could someone look at this individual and not say that he is a rather remarkable person? I'd really like to think this statement hinges on the fact that you are not a University of Florida fan.

    And Will, while modesty is certainly a strong suit of yours, the idea that you are of average intelligence does not really fly. First off, you can't have it both ways--Mark has said repeatedly that this program is best suited for highly intelligent people, and you are one of its most vocal and knowledgeable proponents. So you should make a decision: can this material really be understood and implemented (and taught) by most anyone, or are you (and your kids) perhaps more naturally gifted than you allow? Second, your education level and your talent in writing and speaking does not comport with someone who is not at least a standard deviation above the mean. So, while I'm sure you and your wife are skilled and devoted homeschoolers, I'm also confident that you passed on noteworthy intellectual (and maybe social and athletic) capacity that accounts for a significant chunk of their academic and social success. Yes, it is true. This program is BEST suited for highly intelligent people. That is why individuals such as Dr. Jonathon Sullivan, Dr. David Pruder, Dr. David Tybor, Robert Santana, Dr. Nic Racculia, Dr. Stef Bradford, etc are a part of the organization. Rip did not say that someone of average intelligence can't do well with it. By any objective measure of intelligence (IQ Testing, collegiate GPA, GRE) I am not above the average intelligence level of adults. As far as my academic level, I have an advanced degree in a joke science. I essentially went to trade school. My ability to finish PT school is no different and no more difficult than someone completing an HVAC program. In fact, I believe HVAC is likely much more difficult than my profession.
    As above. Understanding that most of what I responded with is slightly tongue in cheek.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Stevens View Post
    Getting back to the original post, when are those "coaches" due to be quartered and drawn?
    Maybe we should subject them to their same "calculated" deadlift work weights, and make them do a forced rep and hold it at the top.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Delgadillo View Post
    NO! Shea!!! Don't do this to us! We can't have this rational, reasoned, well-articulated changing of opinion. The internet is a place for doubling down on opinion in the face of contrary evidence. You are doing it wrong.
    Sorry to disappoint you, Nick. In the future, I'll do my best to be a pigheaded as humanly possible when it comes to my interactions with others on the internet.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by atw_abn View Post
    I know lots of public school teachers. I go to church with them. Their kids play sports with my kids. Some are nice on a personal level. One of them is a pretty good friend that I play guitar with a lot. They all are indoctrinated to believe that they know how to best educate my children and that I am harming them by homeschooling them. Additionally, they will vote for any candidate that promises to give them more money, regardless of that candidate's other positions.



    There are two issues with this statement. The first is that you are assuming that these services are necessary or that access to these services would provide better outcomes than homeschooling. Secondly, you assume the solution is for children with special needs to be placed in public school instead of OFFERING THE SERVICES TO CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF THEIR SCHOOLING STATUS. Homeschooling parents pay taxes and use less government funds than public school parents (because their children do not incur the cost of public education). In my school district a homeschooled child with special needs can receive services like every other child.

    sfdfdfe

    Here's a question: why would a PROFESSIONAL educator who had such strong opinion on homeschooling be so woefully uninformed in regards to homeschooling outcomes?

    The PROFESSION of education is concerned with only one thing: making sure current, past, and future educators continue to be paid more and more for their services. This PROFESSION is unconcerned with actually educating children.
    In my 11 years of teaching, I have never heard homeschooling mentioned once. Come to think of it, I haven't heard alternative methods of instruction (i.e. homeschooling, Montessori, private, etc.) spoken of in a negative way ever. I'm kind of hurt that my colleagues left me out of their indoctrination sessions. I wonder if we had to sign up for them and just missed the emails...

    To address your first point - there is no question whether or not those services are necessary in many cases. If you think otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. To address your second point - I never said anything even remotely close to what you suggest. In my district, parents that homeschool their children cannot access the services provided by the school system. Therefore, in order for children with special needs to access those services in my school district, they must be enrolled in the public school system. That's not my opinion; it's a fact. You might not agree with that, but my point still stands.

    Here's an answer - whether or not someone homeschools their child has absolutely zero impact on what I do. Since it doesn't affect me, I hadn't looked into the research. All I had to go on was my own personal experiences working with homeschooled students, but I have already addressed that in previous posts.

    You seem like you have a real problem with the field of education, and I'm sorry to hear that. Not sure what happened to you to make you feel that way, but the majority of people that I work with care about one thing - their students. That being said, everyone has bills. If they are struggling financially, I have zero issues with them fighting for better pay. Personally, I'm not in it for the money. If I were, I'd be working in the private sector full time instead of part time.

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