High School Deadlift Injury/The Government Schools

[CommanderFun]

1. Isn't a large function of schooling not just education but child-minding? I am assuming most parents need to work to pay the bills, so homeschooling might be a real financial hardship, to the point where it isn't really viable.

That is an unfortunate modern reality, but I am fairly certain public education did not begin as government funded day care. It serves that role because both parents tend to get sucked into the work force regardless these days.

[atw_abn]

You must have missed the post where I mentioned that I had reviewed the research and corrected my views as a result. Feel free to peruse it at your leisure.

I had perused it. I was responding to your assertion that you had never received any indoctrination in regards to the superiority of public education vs homeschooling. Your very strong opinions you had (prior to your research on the subject) are indicative of this indoctrination. I'm not talking about you being strapped to a chair like in a Clockwork Orange. I'm talking about the assertion, from your first freshman education class in college to your weekly staff meetings, that public schooling is the optimal way in which to educate children. Your first post revealed that you have received this instruction, formally or informally.

My point stands because that’s the reality of the situation here. You asked for one situation where homeschooling wasn’t the better option, so I gave you one. End of story. If you don’t agree, that’s fine.

Actually, you gave your opinion of one instance in which homeschooling isn't a better option. At best, your point is anecdotal as I am unaware of any studies that in which homeschooling children with disabilities in regards to their outcomes have been studied. But we can use logic:

• For learning disabled children who function best with “real-life problems” rather than artificial worksheet tasks, which environment provides more flexibility? Having a teacher with 20+ students explain how to divide a recipe to make cupcakes or having your parent actually make cupcakes with you while explaining how this relates to multiplication/division?

• For medically sensitive children, which environment provides more careful monitoring? A parent watching their child (with an intimate and comprehensive knowledge of their medical history/needs) or a teacher in a classroom with 20+ children?

• For attention deficit children who function best with uniquely structured time and fewer distractions, which environment provides the most flexibility? An environment in which school buses have to leave at a certain time or an environment in which you can take as much time as you need for a student to learn the material?

Anecdotally, I can provide multiple examples from our own homeschooling community of families whose children with special needs were pulled out public school to, miracle of all miracles, thrive in a homeschooling environment. My own child was diagnosed with autism and dyslexia in kindergarten. She's in fifth grade now and was recently assessed (we use standardized testing in my home to keep track of our kids' progress) to be reading at a 14th grade (i.e. college sophomore level) and her math comprehension puts her in the top 98% of high school graduates in our country. In fifth grade. Without the help of professionals such as yourself.

Who said anything about taking your kids?

The NEA. Are you a member?

In fact, when we refused to enroll our child for services after her dyslexia diagnosis a social worker was sent to our house to investigate for "educational neglect." She brought a police officer with her. Tyranny by any other name would be just as foul

[PuliMorgan]

Here is an interesting TED talk on how to escape from the death valley of education by Sir Ken Robinson, the author of 'The Element', which is a beautiful book:


Sir Ken Robinson: How to escape education's death valley | TED Talk Subtitles and Transcript | TED


"Children are not, for the most part, suffering from a psychological condition. They're suffering from childhood. And I know this because I spent my early life as a child. I went through the whole thing."

[brianhunter]

To homeschool means that mom and dad need to make choices about their careers and lifestyle that is in direct opposition to what most see as the American Dream. You have to think for yourself. And be willing to blame yourself if you fail. Which seems pretty American to me.

Well it comes down to what choices are viable. How does a single parent stay at home to teach the kids and also pay the rent? I'm sure if I asked ten Americans what the American Dream is, then I would almost get ten different answers. And if it's prosperity and social mobility then there is the evidence that suggests that if you want to live the American Dream then you should move to Norway.

He's a Brit, and might not understand this. They have a completely different culture these days.

"We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language." Oscar Wilde said that, so perhaps you are right!

That is an unfortunate modern reality, but I am fairly certain public education did not begin as government funded day care. It serves that role because both parents tend to get sucked into the work force regardless these days.

In the UK at least it was the church that first took it upon themselves to educate the young, so perhaps we should be thankful we've at least moved on from that situation!

[Shea Frazier]

I had perused it. I was responding to your assertion that you had never received any indoctrination in regards to the superiority of public education vs homeschooling. Your very strong opinions you had (prior to your research on the subject) are indicative of this indoctrination. I'm not talking about you being strapped to a chair like in a Clockwork Orange. I'm talking about the assertion, from your first freshman education class in college to your weekly staff meetings, that public schooling is the optimal way in which to educate children. Your first post revealed that you have received this instruction, formally or informally.



Actually, you gave your opinion of one instance in which homeschooling isn't a better option. At best, your point is anecdotal as I am unaware of any studies that in which homeschooling children with disabilities in regards to their outcomes have been studied. But we can use logic:

• For learning disabled children who function best with “real-life problems” rather than artificial worksheet tasks, which environment provides more flexibility? Having a teacher with 20+ students explain how to divide a recipe to make cupcakes or having your parent actually make cupcakes with you while explaining how this relates to multiplication/division?

• For medically sensitive children, which environment provides more careful monitoring? A parent watching their child (with an intimate and comprehensive knowledge of their medical history/needs) or a teacher in a classroom with 20+ children?

• For attention deficit children who function best with uniquely structured time and fewer distractions, which environment provides the most flexibility? An environment in which school buses have to leave at a certain time or an environment in which you can take as much time as you need for a student to learn the material?

Anecdotally, I can provide multiple examples from our own homeschooling community of families whose children with special needs were pulled out public school to, miracle of all miracles, thrive in a homeschooling environment. My own child was diagnosed with autism and dyslexia in kindergarten. She's in fifth grade now and was recently assessed (we use standardized testing in my home to keep track of our kids' progress) to be reading at a 14th grade (i.e. college sophomore level) and her math comprehension puts her in the top 98% of high school graduates in our country. In fifth grade. Without the help of professionals such as yourself.



The NEA. Are you a member?

In fact, when we refused to enroll our child for services after her dyslexia diagnosis a social worker was sent to our house to investigate for "educational neglect." She brought a police officer with her. Tyranny by any other name would be just as foul

I've never taken a freshmen education class. My bachelor's degree is not in the field of education.

To address each of your situations -

1. Federal law requires that students with an IEP receive specialized instruction in their least restrictive environment. For many students, this means small group instruction. Most of my small group instruction occurs in groups of 6 children or less. What learning disability are you referring to specifically? I would provide instruction to a child with dyslexia in a very different way than I would a child with dyscalculia, even if we were working on learning the same material. So, your hypothetical situation doesn't make any sense, in my particular case. As I've already said, different school systems do things differently.

2. Again, that would depend on the particular child. What's the child's specific diagnosis? We have multiple students in my building who are medically fragile. None of them are in general education classrooms because they have other difficulties as well. Also, see #1 regarding LRE and small group instruction. So, again, this would not apply in my particular case.

3. Students with AD/HD are often provided, as an accommodation through their IEP, extended time to complete their work. So, this isn't an issue.

I'm happy to hear that you know children with disabilities that have been successful in a homeschool environment, and I'm also happy to hear that your daughter is doing so well. I know students who would not be where they are today without the services that were provided through the public school system. This kind of seems like a dead end discussion. If it weren't illegal, I could provide you with specific examples including assessment results. But I can't, so it would seem we're at an impasse.

In answer to your question, no, I am not a member of the local teacher's union (which by extension makes you a member of the NEA). When I first started working here, it wasn't an option, but the policy has since changed. As soon as I was able to, I canceled my membership. I have various issues with our union locally (e.g. ways union dues are being spent, individuals within the organization, etc.), and I'm even less of a fan of some of things the NEA is pushing for.

Is it really that hard for you to accept that educators, like any other group of people, are individuals with their own thoughts and opinions?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Well it comes down to what choices are viable. How does a single parent stay at home to teach the kids and also pay the rent?

He doesn't. That's just one reason why single-parenthood is not a good thing for the kids.

Is it really that hard for you to accept that educators, like any other group of people, are individuals with their own thoughts and opinions?

Shea, you seem like a good guy, and we're not shitting on you specifically. This is not personal, except in that it affects our kids and their potential.

1. The government schools are shit. You know this better than we do.

2. We all know many more bad teachers than good ones. Which means that the good ones become far more important to kids who are in the government schools.

3. Do not make the mistake of thinking that kids belong to the state to do with as it pleases. Granted, some kids would be better off as wards of the state rather than victims of their POS parents, but most kids do not fall into this category.

4. The tendency of the government schools to distribute propaganda that encourages parents to not homeschool is merely ass-covering for the money.

A podcast on this topic will be forthcoming.

[Jeffrey Hunter]

1. I do believe for the vast majority of people and their children enrolled in the public education system are being let down academically.

2. I also believe the same thing can just as easily happen to child who is home schooled.

3. The major difference will always be the parenting of the child who will then respond to home school or public school. If you take your kids to the library and show them the importance of reading , if you talk to them like an adult and show them respect, if you teach them to have an open mind and to respect others, and if you can keep an open dialogue with them about the things they are experiencing in life you can have a child who is successful despite the school.

4. Also getting your kid in a proper strength training program (Starting Strength) at the right age would help them to know better than let coaches drop a loaded barbell on you.

I'm excited for the podcast Rip.

[Gbraddock]

In the rare instance we have run into single parent homeschooling situations, it has resulted from tragedies. One was a car accident, and the other was an aggressive cancer. In BOTH cases, the kids continued to be homeschooled through other homeschooling parents. Generally speaking, the lion share of homeschool families seem to have solid marriages that are maintained through systematic efforts. Just like a good strength training protocol, it requires progression or it WILL regress. There are two options here.

We, like most families I know, participate in a co-op with other families twice per week.

As for athletics, our kids play sports for a local private school that WELCOMES homeschool children. Works great for us.

Finally, I have MANY public schooling friends of our family. Private school for that matter as well. One of my favorite things is to go to public high school football games for our local team in Georgia! I also support our local booster club and carry season tickets.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Homeschool: Apprenticeship For Adulthood | Starting Strength Radio #42

[GorillaGains]

Why do we have to jump to taking our kids out of school like it is an all or nothing game? Why not start by putting some bookshelves in and filling them with things worth reading. Preferably in a place they will see them every day, and early in their life. They will inevitably pull one down and open it in the span of 18 years. Public education curricula are pretty low intensity. Plenty of time to read in those 18 years.

As usual, there is a lot more that could be done to alter the situation at hand before implementing the most radical change.

Bonus points if you let your kids see you read at a young age.