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Thread: knee pain

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    490

    Default knee pain

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    Howdy,

    I'm experiencing a pain in my right knee when walking up stairs, location is basically centre of the knee cap.
    I've been having a break from weights so haven't done anything for 6 weeks but about to start back up.
    Question is, is this the onset of further problems or something that may come right either on its own and/or with squats.

    cheers

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Toonttm,

    You probably should start training and would help to resolve your knee pain. But to be clear, lets get some more info first.
    -Age
    -weight, height
    - training history
    - any previous injuries to that knee?
    - Stairs are the only problem?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Palladino View Post
    Toonttm,

    You probably should start training and would help to resolve your knee pain. But to be clear, lets get some more info first.
    -Age
    -weight, height
    - training history
    - any previous injuries to that knee?
    - Stairs are the only problem?
    Hijacking this thread. I'm having the same pain on my patellar tendon. Info:

    Age: 35
    Gender: Male
    Weight: 215
    Training History: squat, bench, deadlift, OHP for 7-8 years. Did a bastardized version of SS for a month at the beginning (aka not doing the program) then wasted 7 years on junk programs. After the 'rona lockdowns started here (California), I got significantly detrained while I tried to find a gym or equipment for a home gym. Once that was resolved (home gym FTW) I decided to give SS a try in earnest. Surprise, surprise, I'm stronger than I've ever been. After the novice LP gains, I moved to a weekly progression about 3 weeks ago.
    Injury History: ACL tear and repair left knee 1x, right knee 2x, PCL partial tear (no repair) left knee 1x. Suspected meniscus tear right knee 1x (I'm so sick of knee injuries, and this hasn't bugged me too much, so I didn't bother getting it diagnosed). These injuries were all separate events. I hate my knees.
    Stats: Squat 390 x 5, Dead 455 x 5, Bench 265 x 3, OHP 175 x 3 (2.5 lb jumps at sets of 5 have been too much for me lately, so I've switched to 5 sets of 3 on upper body)
    Symptoms: Pain on left patellar tendon, right is fine. My ACL repair on the left knee was a patellar tendon autograft, so I'm not surprised to have pain there. Pain is felt when doing motions like climbing stairs or squats. The pain goes away once the blood is really pumping, usually after my first workset. This started a week ago and isn't terrible, but I don't want to aggravate anything. Given my history, I'm very sensitive to what my knees tell me.
    Suspicions: I have two theories. First, whether due to my biomechanics or nuances of my form, I rarely feel soreness in my quads, most squat-related muscle soreness is groin, hamstrings, and glutes. I'm wondering if my posterior chain is getting too much stronger (relatively speaking) than my quads and I'm getting an imbalance. Maybe this is just silly BS. Second, after years of not seeing much progress, my tendons and ligaments have been subjected to forces they haven't adapted to and they just need general strengthening. 35 is not 25, as much as I wish it was.
    Fixes: Front squat on Wednesdays to focus more on quads. Longer rest periods between squat workouts (72 hours instead of 48? I hope not!).

    If anyone has any thoughts or needs more info, please let me know. Thanks in advance!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Comparini3000,

    Hijacked indeed...

    Are stairs and squats your only problem? Where in the ROM of the squat are you experiencing pain? The bottom?

    When going up try ambulating the stairs with your better knee first on each step. When going down the bad knee first.

    To answer your suspicions, no your posterior chain is not too strong. Mild to no quad soreness is pretty normal with a low bar squat. Patella tendon pain is common after an ACL graft, so yes to general strengthening. I am curious about your rest periods, sleep and nutrition. Then I am curious about your programming. I would prefer a light squat on Wednesdays over a FS to avoid loading the patella tendon at this time. Additionally, it maybe time to switch to 5 x3 for squat as well or even 2.5# jumps or a top set of 3 with some back offs. In other words slow the rate of progression. Lastly a light warm up on a bike could help "to get the blood pumping" like you mentioned above with the addition of a few empty barbell sets to warm up. If you are still experiencing pain, then I would temporarily adopt a paused squat at a pain free /moderately challenging weight that you can complete 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps. Each session add 5-10 # and start decreasing the reps by 1-2 until you return to 3 sets of 5 at approximately your current weight. This process should take 3-4 weeks to complete.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Aw shucks, now you got me feeling bad. Sorry Toonttm. Hopefully the info here helps you.

    Chris, thanks for the thoughtful response. When I started SS for the 2nd time, I purchased the app and followed it pretty closely. Warmups for squats are 45x5, 45x5, 135x5, 225x5, 335x3, 365x2, or thereabouts. I have a 60-120 second break between warmup sets but it just doesn't get my heart pumping as much as I'd like. It's not like I'm in great cardiovascular shape - I run a 11:30 mile. A few minutes of biking followed by the above warmup sequence sounds like it would do the trick.

    I'll slow down the progression like you suggested and do a light squat on Wednesday instead of a front squat. 70-80% of my 5RM?

    I forgot to mention I feel the pain (really more of a discomfort, 1/10, but I want to lift for the next 40 years so I'm being hyper vigilant) when getting up from a chair as well. Typically from sitting height to when my butt's 6-8" off the chair, call it roughly 90 degrees to 135 degrees of extension.

    For rest periods between sets, they're 3-6 minutes. I have a timer for 3 minutes between sets, then I stand around for a bit after the alarm goes off.

    Nutrition is OK at the moment - 6 weeks ago I started I eating 1 lb of chicken, pork, or turkey a day and pound 4-6 whey shakes a day, then pack in something plant based (rice, salad, grilled veggies, etc) for the remainder of the calories. I'm not tracking carbs or fats but I figure they sneak in one way or another. This usually means my carbs are simple and not complex. There's definite room for improvement in my nutrition game. 2 months ago my diet was TERRIBLE (75% fast food) but lifting kept me from getting too fat. My nutrition has probably been the thing holding me back the most the last few years.

    Sleep is hit or miss. I don't perform well on too many nights of 6 hours or less, but I usually get 6-7 hours a night based on what my fitbit tells me.

    Stress is also hit or miss. I do taxes for a living so I go through periods of high stress followed by periods of intense boredom with no stress. This cycle also applies to my sleep. Relationships are great, so there's no stress there.

    Lastly, my programming. Up until 3 weeks ago I was doing the SSNLP religiously, progressing on all lifts every workout, 5lbs lower body and 2.5lbs upper body progression. I alternated power cleans and deadlifts and alternated bench and OHP. 3 weeks ago I shifted to a weekly progression with a similar rep scheme and lift selection as the SSNLP, but I changed upper body from 3x5 to 5x3. My squats are getting heavy enough for me that I was contemplating adding a lighter day or some back off sets on Wednesday, so your suggestions fit in great. My deadlifts are also getting heavy enough for me that I feel like I'm struggling to recover, even at 1x5 and alternating with power cleans. Because of this struggle in recovery, I've been looking into halting deadlifts and rack pulls. We'll see.

    Anyway, I appreciate your thoughtful response to my previous message and your general sharing of knowledge on this board. Thank you!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    47

    Default

    comparini3000

    Yes, light squat day ~80%
    To avoid pain when getting out of a chair, get up like we squat. Lean over a drive your hips up.
    You should be rest 6-8mins btw those heavy sets. Set the timer for 6min then stand around a bit


    Good luck

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    6

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Got it. Thanks Chris!

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