Knee injury: advised not to deep squat

[neildillon]

Hi,

So here's my situation:
43 yr old. 6ft2, 180lbs. Long limbs, small torso, skinny. No previous strenth training experience.
Started SS in January, ran NLP until May. Went from 38kg to 58kg 3x5 on low-bar squats, I read the book and used video to check I got below parallel. Was hard and a steep learning curve but I loved it. My strength gains might be laughably small, but I was making progress and kept adding weight to the bar.

Then I injured my left knee. I have a previous history of ACL tear on same knee. Video of the last lift shows my foot placement slightly too wide, some knee valgus and some sideways motion of knee during lift. I had an MRI and the knee surgeon stated I should not deep squat due to poor biomechanics. He cited "high riding" patella and valgus knee placing me at increased risk of injury. His advice: just don't deep squat or lunge. Partial squats maybe, but anything lower and you're knee just isn't built for it.

So, I'd love to hear your advice. Should I try to work with a coach who can get me deep squatting safely? Or with one who can help me modify the program to cut out deep squats? If the latter, is there any way to mitigate the massive loss of deep low bar back squats from my workout?

Many thanks,

N

[Mark Rippetoe]

Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training, 3rd edition (Current Revision, Paperback) – The Aasgaard Company

Read the book. It's in the book. Then give the book to your stupidass doctor.

[neildillon]

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

The book told me:
1 ACL injury no problem (ACL and PCL are essentially unloaded in a correctly performed squat and to the contrary, loading hamstrings by squatting helps strengthen them and protect the ACL outside the gym
2 Partial squats with upright back angle are worse than a waste of time
3 Partial squats with correct back angle fail to perform their potential and anyway introduce a risk of back injury since its tempting to load too high
4 ALL novices have tendency for knee valgue during squat (or knee-forward) so I should shove them out until I feel it in my adductors after a set
5 Neutral knee position is critical for long-term knee health
6 EVERYONE should deep squat in the absence of an injury that prevents it being performed correctly

When I read 1-4, I conclude I need to keep squatting and learning correct technique with a qualified coach.

But when I read 5-6 I get stumped. If my doctor is correct that I'm just born knock-kneed, then, by 5, I am risking long-term knee health when squatting. And by 6, I'm in the category of people who shouldn't deep squat. In which case, what to do instead? Adapt the program? Do RDLs to strengthen hamstrings and glutes in the absence of squats? Or just ignore 5 and train through it?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If my doctor is correct that I'm just born knock-kneed, then, by 5, I am risking long-term knee health when squatting. And by 6, I'm in the category of people who shouldn't deep squat. In which case, what to do instead? Adapt the program? Do RDLs to strengthen hamstrings and glutes in the absence of squats? Or just ignore 5 and train through it?

When your doctor has been wrong about all the previous shit, why would you assume he's right about your valgus? See "Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect."

[neildillon]

Ok. I like Gell-Mann. I also like Bayesian inference. Both suggest squats. So squats it is.

[Mark Le Comte]

When I read 1-4, I conclude I need to keep squatting and learning correct technique with a qualified coach.

Try this first, find out if you can squat correctly (you probably can). I can’t remember the exact quote, but a correctly performed squat will unfuck a lot of things that were fucked.

[neildillon]

Thanks Mark. Appreciate the pointer. Will start unfucking now.