Reply With QuoteIf you can fix it without the box, do so. But the box is a good way to correct this quickly. Look at your feet when you squat, and you'll be able to see what your knees are doing.
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Knee pain again
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Did Starting Strength minus power cleans, was a first book guy
Age: 57
Weight: 230
Squat: 335 for 5
Deadlift 375 for 5
Bench: 205 for 5
I do intermediate programming in general like Madcow now.
I am kinda fat around the waist, so I started a cut of 500 calories per day. My plan was
Day 1: Fully body workout e.g. SS A workout
Day 2: Cardio, Ellipical, Stair Stepper, or trail running
Day 3: off
Repeat
Everything was going good for about 4 weeks. It was going so good I quit taking the off day. I think this was a mistake. I have knee pain, slight in both, but a bit worse in right knee. I think it is what is described here as Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome. Also developed elbow pain in both elbows. Now I am doing the exact same lifts. I think the cut also makes you more susceptible to injury or bad form.
To address the knee issue, I've been reading up here on the forums, It seems I should look at my form. I know my form "used" to be good, so I took a video today. It is almost too embarassing to post. I don't know what happened, I guess over the years, I have left form creep hit me big time. My knees are sliding forward, I"m not using my hips correctly, and my back is not horizontal enough.
So my question is, which approach to take for lifting (will also take ibuprofen)
1). Go back to light weights, get my form good and add weights and follow linear progression
2). Box squats with light weights for a bit, then go back to lighter weight / reset with linear progression. I watched your video today, I have no idea how long I have had bad form / form creep. I know it was good before
3). An alternate approach?
TMPHBITEU
If you can fix it without the box, do so. But the box is a good way to correct this quickly. Look at your feet when you squat, and you'll be able to see what your knees are doing.
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I'm fairly confident now the knee slide was the major issue cause my knee pain. I've been working to correct my form and knees feel way better already but not 100% yet.
This video shows what my issue was but exaggerated a bit of not getting the knees forward early and holding them into place. This is Starting Strength coach Steve RossSetting the Knees Early During the Squat with Steve Ross - YouTube
So very late in my squat to achieve depth, my knees were going forward
Between book, TUBOW Video, box squat video, I think I have it now
I thought I would correct this in 1 workout, but I guess my movement pattern is a bit stubborn, almost there now. This is what I'm doing
1). Added a bit of warm up, I'm very inflexible in general, so quick cycle or walk for a couple of minutes instead of diving right into Squat warmups
2). Added practice getting into position without the bar and put elbows inside of knees, do this several times focusing on (1. set knees early, 2). hold knees in place, 3). hips down and back)
2b). first few times above added TUBOW in front of knee and box behind
4). empty bar squat, focus on 1,2,3 above
5). repeat for 135, 185, 225, 265
6). repeat for working set(s), I took 20 pounds of bar for now, I seem a little weaker, I suppose it's because of a slightly different / new movement pattern
I suppose for us self coached trainees, we should video from time to time and review to make sure there hasn't been any form creep.
Oh, I also meant to ask if I should give knee sleeves a try?
I don't use any kind of wraps or sleeves. I never have, but did notice them on in a few pics and videos on this site. You seem kinda balanced about the idea in your Knee Wraps and Knee Sleeves article. Can hurt?
✓ Member
It's a good idea to video all your worksets if you don't have another set of eyes. Form errors are a lot easier to fix if you catch them right away versus after you've been doing it wrong for 3 weeks. If you're trying to work through an ingrained form problem, videoing your warmup sets isn't a bad idea either.Originally Posted by rmscott_75077
Might help, sleeves offer a little compression and some warmth, wraps can offer more compression if you need it in specific spots (say for tendinitis) or more stability. I don't know if the wraps that Rip used to recommend are available any more. I got a pair of the "Russian" style from the Hookgrip webstore and they work pretty well. Light enough to move in, but decent compression where you need it. They don't act like a powerlifting wrap, more like a heavy-duty Ace bandage.Oh, I also meant to ask if I should give knee sleeves a try?
I don't use any kind of wraps or sleeves. I never have, but did notice them on in a few pics and videos on this site. You seem kinda balanced about the idea in your Knee Wraps and Knee Sleeves article. Can hurt?
The other thing that sleeves or wraps can do is give you more proprioceptive feedback, so you're more aware of what your knees are doing. Which is good if you're trying to correct knee slide.
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Good thinking. Shots from different angles can be helpful, in order to give you the full picture. For example, knee slide is most apparent from the side, but not from the rear. Conversely, if the knees are caving in, a rear view will show it, but a side view will not. Hopefully your gym setup has room for setting up the camera in various locations.
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Quick update, zero pain today, zilch, none at all with lot's of non lifting stuff as well. I made one slight modification to above.
Alternating between improved form regular low bar back squats and box squats (Rippetoe style)
At some point I'll probably go back to only regular, but thought to try it like this for a bit. A bit of variety and also ensure that I'm pain free in a couple of weeks for a couple of all weekend softball tournaments.
My regular squat gets the knees out to toes early, lock them in, squat. this has the knees at a decent angle(but not bad) from vertical but no slide and I feel pretty strong this way
I found 2 different box squat articles from Rip
1). 3 years old video, a bit more emphasis on tendonitis and demonstrated with a more verticle shin Using Box Squats for Knee Tendonitis with Mark Rippetoe - YouTube'
2). 6 years old video, the demonstration has a bit less vertical shin, but coaching is the same How to Box Squat | On the Platform - YouTube
I'm focusing on vertical shins and pause on the box squat. I still advise if possible, to box squat inside the rack with the pins set even though they are done outside the rack in the videos, probably for camera work. I'm doing 80 % of regular squat, which I realize is more than stated, but I can do it. On the last set after pausing almost couldn't get back up. It was probably a comical struggle and strange sounds that only the dog got to witness, but made it. Good to know the pins are there though.
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