Questions about stretching

[Gwyn Brookes]

Coach,

I know you recommend against stretching before lifting which makes all kinds of sense. Someone recently pointed out that you also believe stretching in general to be counterproductive to weight training. I am curious to know (if this is indeed what you believe) if you've come to that conclusion via observation or if there's a physiological explanation (or maybe both, but I would love to know more about the physiology behind it). Any enlightenment on that topic would be great, or if you could point me in the direction of a book or article I'd welcome that too.

In the meantime, I'm experimenting on myself. I guess I'm a little addicted to stretching, it's the one thing I've done consistently for let's see - about 30 years. So it's hard to give up altogether. For now, I'm just giving up stretching hamstrings and adductors, since they're my weakest, and most flexible, links.

Hopefully my squats will get better! I've been in intermediate linear progression for about six weeks and I've only just stalled on a couple of lifts (bench and power clean) but I continue to experience the squat as the most difficult lift and whenever my form fails it's because of those weak links.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't believe stretching in general is counterproductive to weight training, especially if flexibility is limiting the ROM of a major lift. I just think it is a waste of time if it's not. It IS counterproductive to power production when done before a power-dependent exercise, and even badly designed studies can and do demonstrate this frequently. The stretch seems to interfere with the effectiveness of the stretch reflex component of the contraction. This probably has to do with the proprioceptors and their extension-position feedback.

[Gwyn Brookes]

Thanks for the clarification!

[OITW]

Earlier you had an Oz poster who felt his hip flexors were doing all the work, and if I understood your reply correctly, you implied that his lower back was probably not properly extended, cause/result of the work he felt his hip flexors doing. I used to do the CF warmup before SS, but dropped it when time ran short, and it contains the Samson Stretch to get at the hip flexors.

Is there any value to stretching at least the hip flexors?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't think I implied any such thing. I asked why the hip flexors were involved in a hip extension. I think it's possible that the quads need to be stretched, and insofar as the hip flexors are quad, there you go.

[Gwyn Brookes]

My question was aimed at whether stretching the very muscles you need to work (and have a stretch reflex) in the major lifts was counterproductive. I was concerned about spending a lot of time negating the stretch reflex and then relying on that same muscle to produce a powerful enough stretch reflex to utilize in a lift, for instance, at the bottom of a squat.

Hip flexors aren't useful in a squat, due to gravity. They are useful to raise your legs if you are standing (say if you need a nice high kick), or if you are dangling by your legs, they can help you raise your torso. Or, if you are lying down, they help bring your legs closer to your torso. Sorry if I am being pedantic here.

I have super tight hip flexors and spend a lot of time stretching them, and doing so alleviates a number of issues I have with my hips. But stretching my hamstrings and adductors is just a leftover habit from years of dancing and doesn't seem so productive anymore, especially since I can't feel any stretch reflex helping me at the bottom of my squat. So that was the basis for my original question.