Coaching Absolute Extension?

[theuofh]

I was in the gym last Friday, peforming some power cleans before my back squats, when this young man walks in and starts doing 'squat cleans'. By 'squat cleans' I mean 2 25s pulled from the floor in complete upper and lower back flexion, to some super wide, knees caving in, vertical armed rack position.

Normally when I see stupid stuff in the gym I ignore it, as I don't feel right giving unsolicited advice to individuals. However, I'm moving a more appreciable amount of weight in my power cleans now and I could sense this individual wanted some input. So I went and talked to him, and it turned out he wanted some input.

Looking back, I should have just had him do deadlifts, but I gave him more credit than I should have and let him continue his workout but got him to do power cleans instead. First, I had him raise the bar on some plates and fix his starting position. I could get his lower back to as close to full extension as it would go, but I couldn't get his chest up.

He was a taller, lanky guy, but he seemed of normal proportions and exceedingly skinny; Not that I have any idea of what to look for in bodytypes/limb proportions. I just followed the bar at mid-foot, and put the hips wherever they need to be, to get the bar under the scapulae. I even had him raise the weight a bit higher too, in case it was a flexibility issue.

It seemed he just lacked the coordination or proprioception to do keep his chest up. He would crane his neck, but his chest would still drop and his upper back went into flexion. I'm thinking now maybe have him to bw squats in front of the wall to help him keep his chest up, but other than that I have no idea to teach this to somebody who doesn't know what it feels like.

I'm going to see him in the gym again on Monday, I really do hope, as I fear for his life if he keeps lifting the way he was.

Any input?

This really gave me a sense of appreciation for what real trainers and coaches do for people, especially the detrained and complete novices or people that just have been doing it wrong for a long amount of time.

I'm going to tell him about Starting Strength on Monday too, the book and DVD. His coworkers/crossfit buddies, have attended some crossfit certs, which suprised the hell out of me as it seemed like they aren't giving him any input. I'll mention the barbell certification as an option he should very much consider.

This brought up a couple more questions:

1) If flexion is the opposite of extension, then the eccentric portion of a back squat is hip flexion w/ lumbar extension. I'm pretty sure this is correct.

2) At the barbell certs, do you go through how to identify different body-typed/limbed lifters and how to modify setup for them? Is it more a fix your lifts things or learn how to teach others how to do these lifts?

As always, I appreciate the commodity that is your time.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The back position is indeed proprioceptive, and is discussed on pp37-38 of BBT. I hope you can help him before he kills himself.

The eccentric portion of the squat is essentially resisted extension, not active flexion, which would be a catastrophic wreck.

The barbell certs are 19 hours of instruction in both fixing the lifts of the attendees and teaching them why we did it that way. There is a lot of material.

[Tom Campitelli]

The barbell certs are 19 hours of instruction in both fixing the lifts of the attendees and teaching them why we did it that way. There is a lot of material.

I attended Rip's BB cert over a year ago in Reno. It was money well spent. I continue to benefit from the experience both as a trainee and as someone who often informally coaches people.