Trap-bar jumps as alternative to power cleans

[mrwatson23]

Coach Rippetoe,

Joe Defranco recommends Trap-Bar jumps as safer alternative to power cleans. You can see a video of UFC figther Dan Hardy (who got shut out by George St. Pierre on Saturday night) doing them at defrancostraining.com.

I know you have been critical of Trap-Bar deadlifts as alternatives to conventional deadlifts, but what do you think of Trap-Bar jumps as alternatives to power cleans? Defranco says that torn wrist ligaments and ruptured disks are injuries that are "too common" during the catch phase of cleans.

Your thoughts?

[Mark Rippetoe]

The post says "hang cleans", not power cleans. I wish you fuckers would learn to read. But perhaps Joe doesn't coach the clean very well. Perhaps George does cleans. I have taught thousands of people to clean, and I don't remember a pattern of injuries that could be characterized as "too common". In fact, I don't remember a lot of injuries of any type associated with the clean we coach. Or the snatch either. But we don't teach hang cleans.

I don't see a viable alternative to learning how to clean. It's not that hard to learn; lot's of people have taught themselves for decades. How do you think people learned how to do this 40 years ago? And there are coaches available that can actually teach it safely if you or Joe aren't up to the task. If you're going to settle for an exercise in which an explosive extension is not inherent in the movement pattern -- the explosion in a weighted jump or even a hi-pull being merely volitional -- why don't you just do jump squats or dumbbell jumps so that you don't have to waste a bunch of money on a piece of equipment you can't use and don't need for anything else?

[Charles Staley]

Dear God what is unsafe about a power clean?!?! Rip good job on counting to 10 and offering a sympathetic reply

Coach Rippetoe,

Joe Defranco recommends Trap-Bar jumps as safer alternative to power cleans. You can see a video of UFC figther Dan Hardy (who got shut out by George St. Pierre on Saturday night) doing them at defrancostraining.com.

I know you have been critical of Trap-Bar deadlifts as alternatives to conventional deadlifts, but what do you think of Trap-Bar jumps as alternatives to power cleans? Defranco says that torn wrist ligaments and ruptured disks are injuries that are "too common" during the catch phase of cleans.

Your thoughts?

[Damien Thompson]

I agree with Rip.

If you have people injuring there wrist there is obviously something wrong with the coaching process.

If there had to be an explosive jumping alternative, i'd be more inclined to go with the Jump squat. I think that doing a jumping deadlift war jar/yank the piss out the shoulders (supraspinatus especially) upon landing with a heavy weight.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Dear God what is unsafe about a power clean?!?! Rip good job on counting to 10 and offering a sympathetic reply

The infiltration of Physical Therapy types into strength and conditioning has made this kind of watered-down approach to learning basic barbell training the unfortunate norm. But thanks for noticing that this board requires patience at times. You get this shit on your forum too. For those who haven't noticed, Charles is one of our Guest Coaches, below on the forum list.

[vacass]

As a matter of fact, George St. Pierre does do cleans as well as unweighted jumps. Frank Mir also does alot of deadlifting. Matt Hughes was an excellent bencher in his prime. Ken Shamrock was a great deadlifter as well.

Seriously, as complicated as being an MMA fighter can be as far as actual MMA work goes, I am surprised at how much fans want to complicate their lives thinking about training that isn't directly MMA related. It's simple, squat, press, and pull using various basic barbell exercises to get strong. Practice MMA to get good at MMA. Simple.

"Hey Coach Rip, I want to be a boxer, what do you think of pronated grip banded dumbbell jumps? As you well know, the power clean is too hard to teach as stated by people who don't teach it and puts people in the hospital, ALL. THE. TIME.

[Raskolnikov]

Defranco's perspective on this is skewed anyways. The guy usually deals with athletes on a short term basis -- he gets payed to make them stronger and faster over the course of weeks or a few months. Given that, taking the time to erase the shitty habits of high school athletes isn't exactly cost effective (not to mention whether Defranco would even know how to properly teach the o-lifts).

Hardy is the perfect example. The guy shows up to train with Defranco for a few weeks or so before a fight. What's more cost effective in the short term, teaching the guy how to perform a proper power clean, or having him do jumps with a trap bar right off the bat? Arguably the latter. Considering that's the clientele he deals with on a regular basis, he's probably right that there are better, safer ways to work on triple extension and power.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Except that it takes us about 20 minutes to teach a power clean to an athlete of even average ability.

[MAD9692]

Except that it takes us about 20 minutes to teach a power clean to an athlete of even average ability.

Agreed, I taught myself how to power clean years ago when I didnt even know what the fuck a clean was. Once I read SS I sorted out the small mistakes I was making and improved. Either way I never got hurt before of afterwards.

[mrwatson23]

I realize that the original question in the post says

Hang Cleans vs. Weighted Jumps

But if you read a little further into the post, like in the first sentence of Defranco's answer:

I've discussed my stance regarding hang cleans and power cleans many times before on this website. Simply put, I don't feel they are necessary for any class of athlete (with the exception of Olympic weightlifters).

you can see that Defranco refers to both hang and power cleans.

I was not asking the question to piss you off.