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Thread: Help with Crossfit Specific Strength Program

  1. #1
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    Default Help with Crossfit Specific Strength Program

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    One of my trainee's goal is to compete in the Crossfit games 2011. Just to warn you ahead of time, this is long. But I want to include all the pertinent details.

    He is a male, aged 41, 5'9" 185#. Former D1 swimmer and triathlete. Although he is not fully an "adult male" I feel this weight is ideal for competing in Crossfit since it should maximize his strength to weight which is the more important factor with respect to CF. He has already completed SS (added 20 lbs), and I would consider him a intermediate strength trainee.

    We just finished a Crossfitesque cycle. It was heavily biased toward strength - only one "WOD" per week which was usually less than 10 min. This was necessary to acquire CF specific skills and experience since he is relatively new to the activity.

    My assessment of him is that his strength is still the limiting factor in his CF performance. That being the case I have programmed a strength cycle to run through the end of the year. We estimate that the sectional level competition will be in March so that leaves Jan and Feb of 2011 for sport specific train up.

    Here's the strength program:

    Week 1

    A:
    Power Cleans 3x3
    Shoulder Press 3x5
    Back Squat 3x5

    B:
    Front Squat 3x3
    Split Jerk 3x10
    C2 Rower (various intervals and distance up to 2000m)

    C:
    Back Squat 1x3
    Bench Press 3x5
    Dynamic Effort Dead Lift 10x1 (30 sec intervals)

    Week 2

    A:
    Power Snatch 5x2
    Shoulder Press 3x5
    Back Squat 3x5

    B:
    Overhead Squat 3x10
    Muscle Ups 3 x to failure
    Run (various intervals and distances up to 1600m)

    C:
    Dynamic Effort Back Squat 10x2 (1 min intervals)
    Bench Press 3x5
    Dead Lift 1x3

    Some features I would like to note is that the program is loosely based on TM, but with lower volume. Since he is a older his recovery has been limited. I plan to try and get away with as little volume as possible and only add sets if he plateaus.

    Obviously, we are trying to develop (or at least maintain) some CF skills and capacity on the B days. This is another reason to limit the volume since these "light" days are not that light at least in terms of volume. I am training the OHS and split jerks as assistance exercises.

    MAIN QUESTION: The DE deadlifts in 1C seem like they might be redundant since we are doing cleans or snatches every week. If you agree, what would you suggest doing instead? I don't think he can recover well from heavy deads more than once every two weeks.

    Of course any other comments or suggestions are appreciated.

    Thanks in advance for your time,

    Matt

  2. #2
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    Why don't you alternate halting s and rack pulls, and let the snatch and clean take care of the "DE" component.

    Pressing uses the shoulders? I did not know that.

  3. #3
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    Search for some of my old old posts on hybrid metcon/strength programs. You might find some of that information useful to you. Additionally, go look at Anthony Bainbridge's log over at the CF main site. He is probably the most successful guy that I happen to know of at running a productive strength routine alongside CF style programming. Owns CF Fredericton in Canada.

    Basically follows a 3 on 1 off schedule going: Strength/WOD/WOD/Off, which is also what I recommend.

    May also want to look at the Crossfit Football site. Might get some good ideas there too, and it fits the bill of CF with strength emphasis.

    Question for Rip -

    Would you be advocating replacing the deadlift/DE deadlift combo with haltings and rack pulls and keeping the DE Squats in the program...or getting rid of the DE Squats as well??
    Last edited by Mark Rippetoe; 09-16-2010 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #4
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    I think the DE squats are fine. I just like the Olympic lifts instead of DE deadlifts for guys that are not competitive PLers. More skillz, all that rot.

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    One resource you may find worthwhile is Freddy C's log for a run at the 2010 games. Freddy is a close match for age and size to your guy (44/5-8/185), although probably stronger (although his deadlift starts <400lbs...). Austin Begiebing of Crossfit Unlimited did the programming, and since he helped Khalipa to a win in 2008, the programming might be useful for mining ideas. The log is at http://crossfitoneworld.typepad.com/...2010_crossfit/

    Do you have target numbers in mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowjoe View Post
    One resource you may find worthwhile is Freddy C's log for a run at the 2010 games. Freddy is a close match for age and size to your guy (44/5-8/185), although probably stronger (although his deadlift starts <400lbs...). Austin Begiebing of Crossfit Unlimited did the programming, and since he helped Khalipa to a win in 2008, the programming might be useful for mining ideas. The log is at http://crossfitoneworld.typepad.com/...2010_crossfit/
    I'm actually friends with Freddy. I saw him during his train up time at one of Robb Wolf's seminars. He was "ripped", but also looked wrung out. I don't know if it was the program or some personal issues he had. From reading his log it sounded to me like he was over trained. I don't think his program took into his age into proper account.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowjoe View Post
    Do you have target numbers in mind?
    I want to get him repping 300's in the back squat. He's got a very respectable press already, but the bench is weak. Although the bench is not something we had spent much time on previously.

    Yes, Freddy is a lot stronger. I don't think my guy expects to qualify at the sectionals unless they have an over 40 master's division. He just wants to make a solid accounting of himself. Competing gives him something to focus on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Why don't you alternate halting s and rack pulls, and let the snatch and clean take care of the "DE" component.
    Hmm. I was under the impression that splitting the deadlift up like this was more applicable to an advanced trainee. You would prefer this to SLDL's, RDL's, or Good Mornings on the alt day for an early intermediate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Pressing uses the shoulders? I did not know that.
    Ha ha. I copied that out of my training plan and forgot to "fix" the presses. The people I train want to call them military presses which bugs me. I had to compromise with shoulder press.

    It makes sense to them if a shoulder press is a press from the shoulders and a bench press is a press from the bench.

    Matt

    Quote Originally Posted by KSC View Post
    Basically follows a 3 on 1 off schedule going: Strength/WOD/WOD/Off, which is also what I recommend.
    I'm not sure I even agree with a 3 on 1 off schedule - at least for guys our age. It has always ended in overtraining after a succession of progressively shitty workouts. We actually made great progress in WOD times with a Strength/Off/Strength/Off/WOD/Off/Off. In that regime you can hit the one WOD really hard. We had no issues with overtraining. Of course, in this current cycle I am focusing on strength only with metcon maintenance.

    The 3 on 1 off schedule seems at odds with Rip's philosophies except for an advanced level athlete. And even then, 5.5 workouts a week seems pretty high. SS and TM is just 3 days a week. Why would an intermediate athlete need more than 3 workout days a week?

    I feel like weekly volume is the last resort. If you can make progress on less volume then you should. Volume should be your last bullet. WODs done for 20-30 minutes at a loaf pace because you came into the workout smoked sounds a lot like LSD to me. (Not attributing that to you or your peers, but the main site WODs seem like that to me.)

    I will look at your old posts, CF Frederiction, and CF Football and see what I can glean.

    Thanks,

    Matt
    Last edited by Mark Rippetoe; 09-17-2010 at 05:33 PM.

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