The "other" way to do a clean. The "other" way to do a clean. - Page 2

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Thread: The "other" way to do a clean.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoppi View Post

    I guess my only question is, does Dimas clean from the same position he would deadlift from? I searched through a bunch of his cleans and couldn't find a side view one, but his hips look pretty low.
    I have never seen a video of his deadlift, but he cleans and snatches from the same start position we teach for the deadlift, clean, and snatch.

  2. #12
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    This seems to be to be a case of a lot of people correlating a Real Fucking Strong man's success with his technique, rather than looking at the causation, which is that he's Really Fucking Strong, and thus can get away with an inefficient bar path.

    If you frame through the slo-mo part of the video, you will see that everything he does that is outside of what the SS method teaches is to account for the lateral motion he has induced in the bar.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You have stumbled into the Truth. I'll try to send you a prize or something.
    Wouldn't it be cool if someone wrote a book with a whole chapter dedicated to the LBBS and how it is more generally applicable to other athletic endeavors because of this phenomenon? A basic instruction manual of sorts that would allow people to make more educated efforts to start a strength training program? It would be great if the author of this book based it upon his many years of experience lifting and coaching other lifters and athletes. He could name it, "Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training" or something concise and straight forward like that. Does anyone here know of such a book?

  4. #14
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    Originally Posted by scoppi

    I guess my only question is, does Dimas clean from the same position he would deadlift from? I searched through a bunch of his cleans and couldn't find a side view one, but his hips look pretty low.
    Here's a good side angle of Dimas cleaning. His hips are low but his butt doesn't rise

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igcy8Gwljjc

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJB82 View Post
    If we accept the hips higher start, which I do, would not the next logical step tell us the LBBS (more horizontal back angle, hamstring/glute contribution) would be more useful at developing strength for this position than the HBBS? I know this will may spin into a whole other discussion, not my intention, but it seems logical to me.
    I always assumed the usage of the high bar was more for its carryover to getting out of the hole in the clean and snatch, not so much for the initial pull?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    The only thing that makes any sense about this pulling style is that by relaxing the hamstrings into a squat, the low back is easier to get tight since the tension is off the pelvis at the set position. But you pay for this with a lot of bar path inefficiency, as Sagir quite vividly demonstrates as he lays back in attempt to save all of his pulls that go forward due to his floor pull. Many people have become very good at doing things inefficiently, and I'm sure you know of very accomplished athletes who would be even better were they more efficient at their sports. Being elite doesn't automatically make you efficient.
    I'm definitely guilty of relaxing my hamstrings (and lowering my butt) when setting up for a pull. I believe it has had a negative impact on the path of the bar. I never even realized this until it was pointed out to me at the seminar this past weekend. (that and falling onto my toes).

    Dastardly,
    Here's some older deadlift videos of me. Notice the how the path of the bar is effected at the very start of the lift. It's almost a little wobbly. And much like the videos Rip shows at the seminar, the bar doesn't leave the floor until my hips are the position I should be setting them in the first place (slightly higher).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGu-Xtqp954

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MFc_cOOmLk

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sousa View Post
    I always assumed the usage of the high bar was more for its carryover to getting out of the hole in the clean and snatch, not so much for the initial pull?
    That's kinda why you front squat, if your an Olympic lifter. Or you could just use the squat and the deadlift to get real fucking strong and the task would then be easier too.

  8. #18
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    Thanks for posting that link, Willie. And thanks for the responses, Rip.

  9. #19
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    I have heard the argument that low-bar squatting Olympic lifters will have a tendency to miss their front-squats in a good-morning type fashion where the hips shoot up and the bar is dumped forward, and that the high-bar squat is primarily trained to prevent just this sort of thing. I competed for several years in Oly and exclusively high-bar squatted. I missed plenty of heavy front-squats in that time.

    In that time I have also seen plenty of high bar squatting OL'ers miss their front squat and cleans coming our of the hole in that manner i.e. "good morning" them, which leads me to believe that if you are not strong enough to front squat it, you will not front squat it, no matter how you back squat.

  10. #20
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    starting strength nutrition camp
    I actually heard a football coach say that the reason he had his poor kids do squats with their toes pointed forward was because if they pointed their toes out when they squatted they would point their toes out when they came off the line too. It is amazing the lengths to which people will go to justify lifting lighter weights.

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