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  1. #31
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    • wichita falls texas december seminar 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlentzner View Post
    Here's my question:

    If the there was a deadlift competition where success was only measured by bar distance who would win?

    Let's say the competition was done in a power cage with the pins set at 24". Each lifter just has to touch the pins with the bar for a good lift. Which of these lifters, the tall one or the short one, would win?
    This is essentially what strongman competitions measure and why being taller has been favorable, generally. See Atlas Stones. But see Mariusz Pudzianowski for a shorter freak of nature/science. He's awesome.

  2. #32
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    A clean and jerk takes more work (weight x distance) than a deadlift (in lifters that are skilled enough in both to where skill is not the limiting factor).

    A clean and jerk takes more power (work / time) than a deadlift.

    A deadlift produces a higher amount of force on the bar than a clean and jerk (mass*accleration).

  3. #33
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    But why stop there? Why dont we time it as well? It is POWERlifting.

    Cholakov snatched 207.5kg and bronze at the '04 Olympics...... he's over 2 metres tall, he moved less weight but a lot further than Rezazadeh in the snatch. The mind boggles with how sporting results could be tampered with by looking at other aspects of the athletic effort.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
    The work done by a powerlifter is significantly less than that done by a weightlifter. Power is lower as well. The powerlifter, however, produces a much higher force on the bar.
    True, however, a by-product of powerlifting training is that a well trained powerlifter can produce high levels of power if needed.

    Example: Powerlifter A is a 5'6", 160lb male athlete. He can squat around 400lbs for a 1RM. At his 1RM, it takes approximately 4-5 seconds on the concentric phase...power output is low because of the amount of time, correct? Take this same powerlifter, and he is able to vertical jump 36". The amount of power needed to lift him 36" off the ground is very high.

    Take this same athlete and make his 1RM be 225 and there is almost no way whatsoever he can vertical jump 36".

    My argument is that powerlifting, though in training produces low levels of work and power, conditions the body to be able to explosively produce power when needed.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    But why stop there? Why dont we time it as well? It is POWERlifting.

    Cholakov snatched 207.5kg and bronze at the '04 Olympics...... he's over 2 metres tall, he moved less weight but a lot further than Rezazadeh in the snatch. The mind boggles with how sporting results could be tampered with by looking at other aspects of the athletic effort.
    and then you get down to the infinite regression issue: they could do a study and find Rezazadeh has less fast twitch muscle fibers, Cholakov has arms 2cm longer which gives him a mechanical advantage during the pull, Reza has greater wrist flexibility which makes it easier to hold the bar in snatch grip, Cholakov had a better diet than Reza, Reza has more government funding, Cholakov has a family history of mental illness so a 207.5kilo snatch is harder for him than for Rezazadeh, etc etc etc.

    weightlifting uses bodyweight as an (imperfect) measure, but there's also a point where things are too perfect, like in the over analysis I provided above ^ which could be the logical extension of analysing every physiological, biomechanical, psychological and societal advantage a lifter possessses

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by stronger View Post
    weightlifting uses bodyweight as an (imperfect) measure, but there's also a point where things are too perfect, like in the over analysis I provided above ^ which could be the logical extension of analysing every physiological, biomechanical, psychological and societal advantage a lifter possessses
    But can't we agree that tie-breaking an Olympic gold medal, in an event involving 300-475kg of total lifted weight, based on 0.01kg of what is probably fat is pretty lame?

  7. #37
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    William,

    I have said no where that powerlifters are necessarily not explosive, simply that the lifts they perform do not display it as well as the lifts weightlifters perform. In addition, vertical jump is affect by rate of force production much more so than maximal force production.

  8. #38
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    Perhaps, but which is more trainable? Genetics dominate power considerations, whereas strength can be developed for many years. So, given your genetic vertical jump, which training method has the greater potential to affect power? Both are necessary, but strength improvement is more productive of power long-term.
    Last edited by Mark Rippetoe; 11-19-2010 at 04:52 PM.

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