Problems to use hips correctly while squatting and deadlifting.

[sunetdanne]

Dear Mr. Rippetoe.

Hope its ok that I give you all of this background info here and post my real question in the end?

My name is Daniel. I am a 28 old male from Sweden that has been lifting weights since 2004. Back then I was doing a split BB routine(I did not know so much about technique when it came down to squats or deadlifts).

Tuesday:Chest and back
Thursday:Arms
Saturday:Legs and shoulders.


2006 I started to work as an CAE-engineer. After a while my mobility became worse(desk jockey ) and I had my first lumbago/lumbar strain during a 50kg deadlift, so I stopped deadlifting. Six months later I had one more back strain from a high bar squat (I was doing 6x10*85kg back then)
I switched to BB front squats and had one more back strain 7 months later. Do I need to say again that I at that time did not have any Idea about "safe lumbar position". After that I stopped squatting for 2 years and only did leg presses.

In 2008 I found the site stronglifts.com and was introduced to your work(Starting Strength that i have copy of) I started your SS 3x5 routine,however I had developed trigger points (RSI) in my neck from my computer work and still suffered from bad hip mobility so my increasment was restricted. Basically the whole 2008 was spent doing

Front squats 3x5*75kg
Bench press 3x5*(don't recall kg used)
Deadlifts 1x5*100kg
chins
dips

By the end of 2008 I started to suffer from sciatic. Did a MR, spring 2009 that showed a light nerve impingement on my lower discs. Spent whole spring doing physiotherapy, strengthening my inner abs and lifted twice a week like this:

A:
Over head press 3x5
Dumbbell row(one armed) 3x6
Suitcase deadlift 3x5 (2 dumbbells)

B:
Box squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

By the second half of 2009 my back felt fine again, so I moved on to do normal squats 2 times a week.

This is my current stats:

BW:82kg
Height:178cm
Squat:3x5*85kg
Bench:3x5*95kg
OHP:3x5*55kg
Deadlift:1x5*120kg
Power Clean 5x3*67kg

Now on to my questions:

Low bar squat:

Today I am doing a hybrid style of squat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFD8IXOkCpc

It is neither low bar nor high bar, but a mix of both. I keep my torso rather upright and I don't have much hip drive right now.

I also let my knees roll forward in the bottom to reach depth.

This squat style gives me knee pain, right side groin pain and pain close to my right hip bone (not during lifts) with weights higher then BW(I try to push out my knees) and also feels really hard when it comes to maintain safe lumbar position getting "out of the hole".

I wish to do real hip drive squats to strengthen my weak posterior chain and take the stress of my quads/knees however,

I think that my major mistakes are.

1)
Going straight up and down rather than sitting back. -->my knees roll forward --> "quad driven squat"


2)
I keep my upper torso vertical and use minimal hip drive.
->I have a mental blockage when it comes to lean forward with my torso and move backwards with my hips. Basically I am afraid to loose my lumbar curve.

->When I do try to move backwards with a vertical torso it feels like I am about to drop backwards and the hip drive dies and I do a "quad drive" instead.

I would summaries my problems with the squat like this:

Mental inability combined with tight hips(I cant touch my toes with straight legs) makes it hard for me to dare/be able to move my hips back and lean forward to keep my center of gravity.


Deadlifts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnXVELlz2UM

Major problem: Lowering the bar

My inability to lower the bar correctly restricts the weights that can be handled and makes it really hard for me to do "floating" sets (with dead stops between each rep).

Currently I can do max 3 reps without resetting my starting position(standing up, bending down and lifting). The weights do not determine this form issue. I have the same problem with a 60kg lift as well with a 120kg lift.

During the lowering of the bar I change the way of pattern and move the bar away from my knees in order to avoid hitting them. So my problem is to push my hips back during the lowering of the bar.

-If i keep the bar really close to me legs during the lowering its a 100% "knee hit" with a change of bar pattern.

-If if try to push back my hips and don't think about keeping the bar in contact with my legs during the lowering of the bar, the bar pattern is better, however I then often loose my lumbar curve and feel soreness and ache in my ql muscles and hip muscles for the next 2 days.

Would it be a good idea to do the following?

Do rack pulls instead of squat once a week.
Do halting deadlifts once a week

I manage to do the lifts correctly when I break them up like this.

Do lighter deadlifts once a week with several set to train the correct technique

I do appreciate all the help i can get here.

Thanks in advance

Best regards
Daniel

[Mark Rippetoe]

I think you need a coach, Daniel.

[Rusi]

I had the same problem with the lowering part of the deadlift. It's really easy to fix especially with heavy weight. Just let it roll. Don't push it insanely in your upper leg. Just let it slide. If you bend at the hip without letting the bar roll DOWN the bar path will change because when your hips move backward THE BAR moves backward too and when you bend at the hip there is no way for your hips to be in front or in line with your knees. Get it? Look in slow motion how you lower the deadlift - the first movement is hips back - that's correct but THE BAR SHOULD NOT MOVE BACKWARDS WITH THE HIPS. The bar move down and it slides.

Look at 0.20 of your deadlift video. See how the hips move back and the bar moves back too. When your hips are back and the bar is on top of them the bar path change and there is an additional backward movement which places the bar way behind your knees and it becomes very hard to get them out of the way. So do what I did - slide it on the lower part of the upper leg but do not push it insanely into your upper leg. Just let it roll. Also keep your shoulder in front of the bar during the lowering phase too.

As far your squat form goes - look at this video of Rip teaching the squat - the boy does the same mistake most of us did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

[sunetdanne]

Hi

Yes i fully agree. I will try to find a suitable power lifting gym ASAP.

In the mean time. Would I benefit from

1) Deloading the squat and working hard on hips back or
2 Deloading the squat and using som kind of boxsquat(like the one mentioned in the book)?

[Mark Rippetoe]

2. Box squats for novices are mentioned in my book?

[sunetdanne]

2. Box squats for novices are mentioned in my book?

Hi. I meant "safety-pins squats" And no, in your book you have placed these under assistance exercises and you do not recommend box squat for safety reason(spine) . If I recall "pin-squats" are used like rack pulls(when you are an advanced lifter and can lift way beyond your BW).

However I have read a lot of stuff on the net that a good way to help people learn how to sit back rather than sitting down is to introduce them to the box squat. This is why I asked about the boxlift as a way a "learning to sit back".

Best regards
Daniel

[Mark Rippetoe]

Ah. The internets. You can learn a lot of stuff on the internets.