My 2 cents

[Doug]

Rip,

The last 3 posters have mentioned the value of using cut down versions of CF WOD's as an adjunct to strength training.

What's your take on that idea ?

I hate the thought of never doing another WOD, it's like the ex you know you can't live with but you still want to want to have sex with.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I won't comment on the metaphorical significance of your last statement. But all of the CF affiliates that I know of who are actually good at this have all -- universally -- come to the conclusion that shorter versions of the "WOD" designed for "metcon" work better and interfere less with strength training than the full Official versions.

[forgeforth]

That cannot be denied. Much better than ours. And as a result they have the momentum to carry them past the fact that what they do doesn't actually work for more than a few months. They will be a factor in the industrty for a long time.

It seems to fit nicely with the rest of the cycle targeted toward untrained people. It usually entails some form of glorified circuit training and probably some form of caloric restriction. Because these programs don't actually work for more than a few months (as you stated), the trainee often loses all progress after the initial novice effect wears off. The trainee then goes on and does another well marketed program, only to arrive at the same conclusion. It's a perpetual cycle, much like the diet industry. In theory, all diets "work" in that they entail caloric restriction. To untrained persons, losing weight can be accomplished simply by limiting the food they eat. The problem with these diets is they endorse a lifestyle that isn't sustainable in the long run (i.e., all carbs are bad, twinkie diet, don't eat after 6 pm diet, one day diet, raw diet, etc.). So the person essentially does one diet, loses the weight, gains it back again and goes on to spend more money on another diet.

And you can't say they don't "work" because they "do." I see CF going down a similar road. Glorified circuit training is the bastard step child of fad diets. I hope no CFers take offense to this. Those of you who benefit from CF and continue to see progress under the barbell know who you are and this isn't directed toward you.

[Tamara Reynolds]

I hate the thought of never doing another WOD, it's like the ex you know you can't live with but you still want to want to have sex with.

Yesterday, I rowed to warm up and swung a kettlebell and jumped rope to condition.

Last time I checked, Greg Glassman did not invent ergs or kettlebells or jump ropes.

It is possible to condition without being a fucking idiot about it, and there is no reason to call it a WOD.

[gamedog]

I won't comment on the metaphorical significance of your last statement. But all of the CF affiliates that I know of who are actually good at this have all -- universally -- come to the conclusion that shorter versions of the "WOD" designed for "metcon" work better and interfere less with strength training than the full Official versions.

I have noticed similar, in my training life. Since I'm on a Bill Starr-type 5x5 program, where I'm only adding 5 lbs. to my squat and dead a week, and 5 lbs. to my bench and ohp every two weeks, I decided it'd be a good idea to work-in some conditioning work. On the advice I head about, often given by folks like Justin Lascek, JP and many others, I tried to keep my conditioning work to the 10 minute timeframe (though if I'm having fun and not getting my ass kicked too badly it'll run a it longer), and do it 4 times per week, 3 sessions after lifting on Heavy, Medium and Light Day, and once on Sunday morning on an empty stomach. And I have noticed that my recovery from lifting has actually improved, along with various aspects of my own GPP which previous to this I had found unsatisfactory.

I basically just make sure to:

1. Keep them brief, but work hard
2. Do it "loaded" (i.e. if you're gonna move and stuff, use kettlebells, if you're gonna sprint, sprint while dragging a sled, if you're gonna do push-ups, do burpees...)
3. Realize that this is to have fun and improve recovery and GPP and that is IT, that's all it is

And it has been good. No interferance with strength training so far, went down several belt loops, and I feel a lot better when I'm under the bar. It's not CrossFit, of course, BUT, I believe that CrossFitters could benefit from a strength training program, with small conditioning work thrown-in where appropriate, and leave it at that. As I see it -and as with everything else in life, your mileage may and probably will vary- it allows you to have the best of both worlds as long as you don't go to extremes with it (especially the conditioning).

[This Old Man]

I've had similar experiences as the OP. Last night I went out and ran a mile. (Long story why, related to a military testing requirement.) This is the first time in about five years I have done any running at all, and being fat now, after linear progression, I expected it to be hard. It wasn't. Maybe I'll do two tonight, or even try for time. The run was not as easy as it used to be, when I was running on a regular basis, but it was a *lot* easier than I expected it to be, five years out of practice.

Pushups are actually easier now, after SS, than they were when I was specifically training for them. If SS makes you better at doing pushups than doing pushups does, why do pushups?

[Doug]

I won't comment on the metaphorical significance of your last statement. But all of the CF affiliates that I know of who are actually good at this have all -- universally -- come to the conclusion that shorter versions of the "WOD" designed for "metcon" work better and interfere less with strength training than the full Official versions.

What CF affiliates do you think are good at this ?

I'll bet SFCF and CF Balboa make that list.

I understand some people here have had a bad experience with CF and that seems to taint every comment they make they about it.

So I don't think I can rely on anything they say about CF nor the alternatives they recommend.

I know you're one of the people who had a bad experience but I also think you're capable of being objective, much more so than some other posters here and elsewhere.

Clearly many CF people know your value, I would hope people on this here forum can recognize that CF has some value also.

[Mark Rippetoe]

There are many good affiliates. We have had great relationships with Mike Manning's place in Melbourne FL, Harbor City CrossFit, an excellent Olympic lifting gym. Skip Miller in Denver at Front Range CF, one of the better gyms in the country. Greg Arsenuk in Montclair NJ's Guerrilla Fitness has gone out on a limb for us, and he has a great gym too. We're in Atlanta at AK CF soon, and Heidi has been adamant in her support of us and barbell training. Many others are no longer CF affiliates, like Eastside S&C in Redmond WA, where Street and Carrie are like family to us. Many places we used to go have been forbidden by HQ to host us, while some host us anyway. Welbourn is one of my better buddies, and his place is an oasis in a sea of silliness.

You seem to take exception to the fact that many people have strong negative feelings about CF after they leave. You'll understand this better at some point in your training.

[Tamara Reynolds]

I understand some people here have had a bad experience with CF and that seems to taint every comment they make they about it.

So I don't think I can rely on anything they say about CF nor the alternatives they recommend.

Sigh.

You clearly need to jump aboard the TBone Is Awesome train.

If all of my comments about CrossFit were tainted and horribly prejudiced, then eventually CrossFitters would stop asking me for my opinion. And, when that happens, I will give you a million dollars.

I guarantee that I am still more involved in the CrossFit community at this point than any other regular contributor on these forums. So, I do not, in fact, pull my opinions out of my very fine ass. They are generally based in fact, although I often add high levels of sarcasm. Sadly, I'm actually very good at making CrossFitters better at CrossFit.

[gamedog]

What CF affiliates do you think are good at this ?

I'll bet SFCF and CF Balboa make that list.

I understand some people here have had a bad experience with CF and that seems to taint every comment they make they about it.

So I don't think I can rely on anything they say about CF nor the alternatives they recommend.

I know you're one of the people who had a bad experience but I also think you're capable of being objective, much more so than some other posters here and elsewhere.

Clearly many CF people know your value, I would hope people on this here forum can recognize that CF has some value also.

I wouldn't mind at all if some hot milf called me a "Firebreather," slapped me on the ass and toweled me off after a heavy set of deadlifts...