And GOD KNOWS you've seen thousands of American lifters over the decades you've been involved in this sport. (My turn now, kinda fun actually.)Originally Posted by ihatemoney123
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Kendrick Farris cleans 218kg with a relatively easy clean recovery at 85kg.
Rob Addell cleans 200kg as a 94kg lifter with an exceptionally easy clean recovery and doesn't lift full time.
Chad Vaughn cleans 180 plus as a 77kg (2.3x bodyweight + just like your video).
Are lifters don't train as much as international lifters. Aren't sponsored by the government and we still put up some scary numbers.
Eduardo Guadamud (BTW) has a bigger squat than many of the top lifters yet he cannot jerk as much weight. Much of this is due to speed. He is just not fast. The same can be said for many of our elite lifters.....with farris being the only exception. Chad Vaughn is fast as well. Jared flemming is the fastest Jerk of all the american lifters I HAVE EVER SEEN. He is extremely comparable to many of the eastern european greats. Although jon north and flemming are friends........north knows that flemming is TOUGH TOUGH competition.
TMPHBITEU
And GOD KNOWS you've seen thousands of American lifters over the decades you've been involved in this sport. (My turn now, kinda fun actually.)
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This is based off of what I have seen........and no I haven't seen hundreds upon hundreds of lifters......maybe 50-100. There is a huge discrepancy.......HUGE between Flemmings jerk and many of our top lifters. I believe he happens to be an anomaly in relation to speed and most american athletes. Don't get me wrong.....this is all speculation.....but:
Most olympic lifting gyms don't have the same success as cal strength or broz gymnasium simply because broz and cal strength specifically choose athletes and they are fortunate enough to have come by these athletes. Rip, you know this is true yourself. I find it somewhat interesting how Broz has a lifter (69kg) who is cleaning 160kg pretty quickly since joining his gym. Truth is, they aren't doing anything special. There could be other gyms out there putting up the same numbers.....but I haven't seen their lifters at the arnolds (american specifically).
BTW, for those curious....this isn't a specific workout plan in Average Broz but their style is based on this:
daily (mostly) working CJ untile failure.....snatch is a bit different
5-10 minute warmup with bar...not so much stretching
Squatting daily, before and after classical lifts
only maxing out if the lifter has squatted on a daily basis
Pushing heavy squats to the point that several misses are recorded weekly
5 reps on back and front to build power and trips and dubs to build strength and get a feeling for the weight....sometimes work back up to 5's after many sets and back down to dubs or singles. It goes by how u feel during the day.
Cal strength does something similar but they do not squat as frequently. Instead of 6-7 + times a week it is more like 4-7 with more of a texas method blend. On some weeks squatting is done 9x a week. Spencer wouldn't be squatting 235kgx11 if he was not squatting almost daily.
As for strict press......neither gyms put emphasis on it....mostly push jerks, push presses......broz adds bicep curls every couple of weeks haha. No plyometrics is done by either from I understand..broz specifically explains that is left to jumpers. Bulgarians would do it sometimes to open up the hips.
In both gyms one thing is common: NOT GENETICS but Mental attitude. Remember Jon north used to do 110/140 and now he is doing 160/191......mental attitude.
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ihatemoney123
Did you watch the web cast of the Northern California Open Sunday?
Go to the IWF website and look under results and check out the 2010 rankings, this may help you get a better understanding of the state of affairs in regards to USA Weightlifting.
The largest and best club right now in the USA is Kyle Pierce's team in Shreveport they are sending 16 lifters to the Nationals.
I have seen Guadamud lift, believe me speed is not his problem. I believe I read some where that North was totallying 300kgs when he went to CA Strength.
I hope this helps you some. Especially the IWF site. I wish things were as good as you outlined in your post.
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Really?
It's almost as if the people that talk so much about weightlifting on the internet have never actually been to any national events. YouTube videos are all that are important.
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True. I mentioned flemming and Farris. Hutchinson is very talented as well.....I just couldn't remember everybody's name off the top of my head. I only know about particular lifters in LSUS not every qualifying national lifter. You only need 250kg to qualify for nationals as an 85kg lifter. That isn't saying much. Speed or strength has to be a problem for Guadamud. If you are squatting such insane numbers....you should be jerking close to 230kg....but he isn't. All I know about LSUS is that they follow more of a powerlifting scheme when it comes to strength training....10 reps...to 8 to 5 to dubs over the course of many months. Yeah 300 or close to it when he came to Cal strength but he's been lifting before cal strength at other gyms. Lifters always have more experience in lifting than they actually say.
Time is all that is needed. Oly lifting is becoming more popular than it was before. The biggest aspect lacking in most black iron gyms.......is volume.
I'm actually curious about something moser: your guys on the island are doing lots of volume on squat work....is this mostly trips, dubs and singles? Those are relatively easy to recover from. How many times during the weak are you doing 3x5, 5x5 and 3x8 heavy on squats? Do you attempt 1RM CJ on a weekly basis? daily basis?
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Agreed. What lifters in particular are you talking about....(chad vaughn and caleb williams aside). There are successful lifters in the US but it success by OUR STANDARDS. Maybe rips way of training might change that for our upcoming lifters. Maybe we won't be satisfied with a 180kg CJ by an 85kg lifter. Maybe one day we will set the standard at 200kg. Rips argument on training a different way (low bar, more efficient lifting mechanics and more general strength training even upper body) are based on the fact that we CANNOT get as strong as elite international lifters without the use of chemical enhancement. Therefore, we need a different approach when training. Correct me if I am wrong, Rip, but this is a valid assumption. All this requires time and effort....it will require decades.
TMPHBITEU
That is, in fact, my suggestion. But what deep experience do you possess that indicates to you that strength takes DECADES to improve?
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I didn't mean that strength takes decades to improve. I meant....finding the right talent and increasing the popularity of the sport will take decades. I don't think it's that easy to find lifters capable of reaching a 700lb deadlift and 600lb squat as a 185lb lifter. I hope this isn't a flawed analogy: it's just as difficult trying to get someone to run a 6.4-6.5 60 yard dash naturally. Even Jose Reyes who supposedly ran this....was just caught using and he is ELITE ELITE when it comes to speed.
My sample size of lifters aren't as big as yours but from what I have seen......it takes about 7 years to get to that 230kg squat as a 77kg lifter training full time.....and even that seems long to me. Even Farris...he reached a 290kg squat or so and it took about 11 years. 11 years is a long time...but there are talents out there such as Chad Vaughn (he started very late).
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I'm not sure what that means.
My post was in reference to the idea that Cal Strength or Average Broz are the powerhouse clubs in the weightlifting community. Both clubs have good lifters, but it's certainly not a domination of the sport. That, along with your posts about what 'program' each club follows, makes me think you've spent some time online, but have no real idea what's going on in the sport of weightlifting.
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