When to Move to Bodybuilding (from a Strength Training Regiment)

[Mark Rippetoe]

Rip, would you agree that setting a reasonable expectation based on bodyweight depends in some large part on the leanness of the individual? We could say that a 260 lb. guy should be able to reach 385x5x3, but if he's 30% bodyfat, can we expect him to do much better strength-wise than the guy who is 215 and 15% at the same height?

I think you have to understand that the fat guy is more likely to eat better for recovery, due to previous habits. I always see heavier guys get stronger faster.

[savage]

Deadlifting 2.7 x bodyweight at 260 is different from doing the same at 200. The heavier you get, the harder it is to keep the bw to strength ratio high.

Rip pulled 633 at a bodyweight of 220. By his own admission, this is nothing extraordinary. I pull 400 at a bodyweight of 143.

633/220 = 2.88x
400/143 = 2.80x

Rip wins.

Harder, schmarder. Zee-man has some serious upside if he keeps at it.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Zee Man,

Just saw this thread and Rip's recommendation that you talk to me.

I have nothing against training for aesthetics if that is what you want to do. My concern with that mindset is that unless you are competitively bodybuilding your training will lose focus and direction. Say what you want about bodybuilders, they are extremely focused, driven, and they have direction to their training because they are locked into COMPETITIONS which hold them accountable to certain goals.

Everybody needs some sort of competitive drive in the gym, whether they are a competitor or not. A program like Wendlers 5/3/1 is good because every training session revolves around breaking a rep PR with a given percentage of your training max. There really isn't anything magical about Jim's formula other than the fact that when you walk into the gym that day, you have a very clear and concise goal to meet that day. Something like....."Last time I squatted 315 for a set of 10....today my goal is 11 or 12." Overtime that mindset will lead to gains in strength and appearance.

Wendlers program is good for late stage intermediates in my opinion. It provides a framework for very precise goal setting and has enough flexibility to be manipulated for whatever your goal is. Go buy his ebook if you want the details of the program.

I have given the following template to a lot of guys whose primary focus is getting bigger. It is a very simple full body program with room for variation on the sets and reps. For size, I like working up to about a 5 rep max and then doing 2 x 12 as a back off, but you will have to manipulate on your own. Honestly though....Wendlers program is better.

Mon:

Squats
Bench Press
Barbell or T-Bar Row

Wednesday:

Press
Rack Pulls

Friday:

Squat
Incline
Pull Ups