When to Move to Bodybuilding (from a Strength Training Regiment) When to Move to Bodybuilding (from a Strength Training Regiment)

starting strength gym
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: When to Move to Bodybuilding (from a Strength Training Regiment)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    595

    Default When to Move to Bodybuilding (from a Strength Training Regiment)

    • phoenix arizona seminar date
    • texas seminar date
    Sir,

    I had posted a similar inquiry to the one below a couple of weeks ago, but it is entirely likely that it never made it to you (Internet error or time-out while typing) or the question frustrated you to the point you didn't respond, who knows. I however would very much appreciate your input and thoughts on the matter as I very highly respect your knowledge and experience as both a lifter and a coach/trainer.

    I am coming to the end of my Linear Progression (Advanced Novice) on SS and am considering moving to a strength-focused intermediate program such as Texas Method, Starr 5x5, or some other regiment. Considering my focus is more towards body building (at the advanced/elite level) which of the Intermediate programs would you best recommend for me to pursue that would best lead into that? I know you are not as experienced in the Bodybuilding pursuit, but I've dealt enough with other people's BS and gimmicks, and I would like the opinion of someone who isn't going to beat around the bush, try to make a sale, or simply just give a half-assed answer (and whom I've come to very much respect for your desire to help people with the drive and dedication to succeed). I want to utilize my potential as best I can, and having someone waste my time isn't going to help.

    My current plan is to complete my Novice/Advanced Novice training, do Texas Method, and then from there focus more towards a Bodybuilding type regiment as opposed to a strength/power focus. I recall either in your books or on the wiki (or both) that you mention many people will break off into a separate direction at the Intermediate stage, or shortly after, and that is fine as your goal is for us to build a strong base.

    As my intention is never to compete in lifting competitions, but merely to look big but balanced (in the sense of the Greco-Romans or earlier bodybuilders, not Ronnie Coleman/Jay Cutler-esque) I am trying to decide at what point in my lifting career/experience I should make that step, ie when have I built enough of a workable base to be able to "sculpt" it much like one would a block of marble into a masterpiece.

    I will not ask you about a Bodybuilding routine as I'm sure you would not be interested in giving one after my Intermediate stage (unless you have one to offer), but do you have any individuals in the industry that you respect as a trainer or coach that is knowledgeable in achieving such goals as given above?

    Thanks for your time and I again greatly appreciate your input. I know that this forum is not for Bodybuilding, but for someone how has followed your program to the best of my ability, and intends to follow strength to build a strong base, I would hope you would entertain this question. To answer the typical requirements:
    Age: 24
    Height: 6'2"
    Weight: 260lbs
    Squat: 325lbs (Three resets, last was at 290lbs)
    Deadlift: 375lbs (Two resets, last was at 375lbs)
    Bench: 250lbs (Have not Reset yet)
    Press: 175lbs (Last reset was at 175lbs)

    Again to reiterate my questions without the "padding":
    1. What Intermediate strength program is best for leading into Bodybuilding once gains with it have been exhausted?
    2. Do you have either a solid Bodybuilding program after that Intermediate level, or know of any respectable coaches/trainers of whom I can research to learn their techniques that you have seen or know actually produce gains and results?
    3. When do you feel is the right time (if one wants to pursue a Bodybuilding concentration) to move away from a pure Strength regiment towards a bodybuilding focused program with a base of strength and size to work with and sculpt without just spinning tires?

    Thanks again,
    Z

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    39,328

    Default

    I don't know anything about bodybuilding, how it's done these days or who to ask. I do know that you're not very strong for your size, that the best bodybuilders are pretty strong, and that since this is the case you're probably being premature with your assessment of your readiness for a program change. I'd re-investigate your approach to your novice training and see where the disconnect might be. Andy Baker at Kingswood S&C would be a good guy to contact.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Zee-man, before you contemplate a bodybuilding regimen you should probably first ensure that you've acquired the necessary body image problems required for bodybuilding.

    I'm kidding, but I'm not. Good luck with all of your training endeavours.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    595

    Default

    Sir,

    Thank you for the response and for the honesty on my current progress. I was under the assumption that still trying to milk my novice gains I was doing well for where I was at and was setting a good base for entering an Intermediate type program (TM/Starr/etc.).

    I know that the Strength Standard document is not an end all be all, but I thought my progression was doing well as all of my lifts (for the prescribed 3x5 or 1x5 for deadlifts - weights I gave are not singles but the PR set weights) are greater than the Intermediate weight for singles of a 275lb male lifter. I know we play case by case and that becomes a pain in the arse for you, but could you throw me some numbers of where I should be before entering Intermediate programming based on my size? And if you are feeling up to it, where should I be at for the advanced level? I know some of this depends on outside factors, but assuming all other variables are constant, we can look at my size alone.

    My plan was to hit TM (if that is the program you recommend most highly) until I at the very least get 5/4/3/2 on my lifts, and then try to milk it even further (but after that a defineable/quantitative goal is more in the grey area).

    Thanks again sir, and I appreciate your input as always. I will indeed look into where Mr. Baker is located and contact him for some input.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    La Jolla California
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    Rip is right. You are premature. Meaningful hypertrophy comes from doing higher reps with heavy weights, not higher reps with pink dumbell weights. Squatting 15 reps with 185 pounds will not blow up your thighs. You need to to be able to do 15 reps with 405 on your back. At 6'2, you may need to be able to squat closer to 500 to get that same effect.

    Read this interview with Tom Platz. In it he describes his early squat training he received from some Oly weightlifters, his linear progression in the squat, and how he did not start doing higher rep hypertrophy routines until he was able to do them with 4 or 5 plates. http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/search?q=platz

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    39,328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post

    I know that the Strength Standard document is not an end all be all, but I thought my progression was doing well as all of my lifts (for the prescribed 3x5 or 1x5 for deadlifts - weights I gave are not singles but the PR set weights) are greater than the Intermediate weight for singles of a 275lb male lifter. I know we play case by case and that becomes a pain in the arse for you, but could you throw me some numbers of where I should be before entering Intermediate programming based on my size? And if you are feeling up to it, where should I be at for the advanced level? I know some of this depends on outside factors, but assuming all other variables are constant, we can look at my size alone.
    A guy your size should end the novice progression with 405 x 5 x 3 or something is wrong.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    595

    Default

    Alright sir, thanks, I'll be sure to continue giving her hell.

    I suppose I didn't think those numbers were possible seeing as most of the logs of the people I "looked up to" or at least followed, didn't hit near those numbers until after they entered into TM, 5/3/1, or some other form. I'll do my best to do it though, would be pretty damn awesome to be Squatting 405lbs for sets before entering Intermediate. It may not surprise you but I come from a background of people who think a 315lb Squat is "scary weight" and I'm bound to injure myself. I know when I first met Jim Steel a couple of weeks ago, he told me that it is important that to get strong you surround yourself with strong people. I have every intention of doing that, so again thank you.

    Is TM your recommendation for Intermediate, or do I need to wait for that little nugget of knowledge until after I've Squatted the 405lbs as a right of passage?

    To the other folks, I don't know that you need to have a bad self-image to get into bodybuilding. I have no intentions of competing in BB, just that I'd like to have a BB-esque build. I think any time someone dedicates their time and efforts to something, busts their ass, and sees results, that deserves respect (even if you don't yourself agree with it).

    Thanks for that article, I started reading it and will hit it a bit later this weekend.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    39,328

    Default

    If you know Jim Steel, you don't need me.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
    my intention is never to compete in lifting competitions, but merely to look big but balanced (in the sense of the Greco-Romans or earlier bodybuilders...
    If this is your goal, it might be easier simply to talk to a nutritionist. Set up a diet where you can maintain your lifts while losing body fat.

    If you look at powerlifters/olympic lifters with low body fat (i.e. anyone in the capped weight classes), they look at least as big as "Greco-Romans or earlier bodybuilders" to me.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    4,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
    I suppose I didn't think those numbers were possible seeing as most of the logs of the people I "looked up to" or at least followed, didn't hit near those numbers until after they entered into TM, 5/3/1, or some other form.
    I don't keep a log here, but I'm currently ascending through 350 pounds on a novice progression and don't see it slacking off anytime soon. 5'10", 220# (Am I an adult male now, Rip?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
    It may not surprise you but I come from a background of people who think a 315lb Squat is "scary weight" and I'm bound to injure myself.
    It does not surprise me based on what you are lifting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
    I know when I first met Jim Steel a couple of weeks ago, he told me that it is important that to get strong you surround yourself with strong people. I have every intention of doing that, so again thank you.
    It sounds like you need to strengthen up your mind as well. Seriously - afraid of a weight? You CHOOSE TO DO THIS! Fear is the mind-killer.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •