Injury prone?

[jmz34]

If you change the program, it won't work as well. You're not doing the program anyway, or you'd be gaining weight. The program includes food.

Point taken. It's just that it's more difficult gaining weight when there's so much starting and stopping.

Can I just ask why the weight gain will reinforce soft tissue architecture? In my simplistic view I'm naturally thinking that an injury prone person lifting at 90% max at say, 180lbs will also encounter the same problems when they lift at 90% max weighing 200lbs. I'm sure things must be more complicated than this, just interested to know. Of course, if it's just a general observation- then that's fine by me and I'll follow it.

[warmachine7954]

I feel the same. This back injury (L5-S1 disc protrusion) won't go away.

I started with a funky case of arthritis in my AC joint took a few weeks off with meds and let it die down. It was waking me up at night often. I have degenerative arthritis in both my AC joints but my right one doesn't hurt at all. Thsi was june of last year.

I had pain in my leg for sometime before the AC joint but was training through it. I was still lifting and making progress. Then it just got to the point of waking me up, not being able to walk without a limp, and constant pain in my knee, calf, and heel.

Ironically my wife had the same L5-S1 disc injury but hers required surgery. I just put mine on the back burner and took care of her.
I finally went to the Dr. in Feb. for my disc. After meds and observation the pain was 75% better. I went back in and started the program. Did a week and a half and the pain comes back. More meds and rest. Finally the pain was 100% gone except some burning in my heal. But that's no big deal. The Dr said I'm good to try weight again. I go back in yesterday with my wife and try to teach her some lifts and bam I have pain in my foot and calf and I didn't even lift the bar more than a few times. I feel like it's never ending.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Point taken. It's just that it's more difficult gaining weight when there's so much starting and stopping.

No shit?

Can I just ask why the weight gain will reinforce soft tissue architecture? In my simplistic view I'm naturally thinking that an injury prone person lifting at 90% max at say, 180lbs will also encounter the same problems when they lift at 90% max weighing 200lbs. I'm sure things must be more complicated than this, just interested to know. Of course, if it's just a general observation- then that's fine by me and I'll follow it.

1. If you are not getting recovered and the injuries are a result of training on unrecovered tissue, the healing process facilitated by the chow makes things better.

2. If you're injury prone, i.e. delicate, like you, bigger, stronger muscles/ligaments/tendons/bones/muscles are harder to hurt than little ones.

The Dr said I'm good to try weight again. I go back in yesterday with my wife and try to teach her some lifts and bam I have pain in my foot and calf and I didn't even lift the bar more than a few times. I feel like it's never ending.

You guys are jerking my heart out here. Do you know how long it's been since I've had a pain-free workout? About 25 years. If you can't train hurt, you cant train more than about 6 months before you'll quit. There are ways to cope. Figure them out.

[warmachine7954]

I understand there being pain in the workout. I played the last half of my senior basketball season with a cracked knee cap. But when the pain keeps you from sleeping and walking normally I would say something is wrong. Your a tough guy and I'm sure there a tough guys here. But when does an injury warrant a stop in training?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Since injuries can be trained around, the only time you would completely stop training for an injury would be when it incapacitates you.

[Roy]

I understand there being pain in the workout. I played the last half of my senior basketball season with a cracked knee cap. But when the pain keeps you from sleeping and walking normally I would say something is wrong. Your a tough guy and I'm sure there a tough guys here. But when does an injury warrant a stop in training?

If you're still having burning, numbness, electric shocks, anything like that anywhere in your body at any time of the day...it's meaning you still have disc material somewhere it shouldn't be. "Only some burning in your foot" isn't 100% better. I'd rethink getting to 100% pain free if possible before trying the weights again as you recently discovered.

This is like being shot with an arrow and pulling it 95 percent out and then saying you're fine. You're only a little shot and you can work around it. In your case you're still shot until you have no sciatica symptoms. The disc material needs to be all the way off the nerve (no sciatica), and it has to have the scar tissue over it making as good a repair as it can get for you to really get better.

Once that scar tissue gets built up I bet that burning will become a numbness as the nerve gets compressed a little with the extra space the scar tissue will take up. Then, if you dilligently stretch and give yourself a bit more time you will finally be pain free. That's what it was like for me, and after bad sciatica for a long time that was what the last few weeks of it were like and how the Dr explained the healing process at the time.

[Greg C]

I'm sorry for the rant, but I can't help it.

It's absolutely amazing to me how totally "pussified" society at large has become. What a bunch of freaking whiners. If it hurts, but it isn't broken, sticking out of the skin, making you cry out in pain, or limiting your mobility such that you can't use normal range of motion, it's time to HTFU and go to work or STFU and stay the hell out of the gym and find a recreational pursuit that is more fitting to your "delicate constitution."

It's ok to ask questions about injury and recovery imo. But please, quit freaking whining about how you are constantly injuring yourself training. Good Lord.

[JB1981]

I am in the same boat as warmmachine. My fucking disc will not heal. It's a stubborn bastard and I actually took some time off the gym because I was just sick of dealing with chronic pain in the low back, hips and legs. I am going back tomorrow, will make some adjustments to my workouts and see how things go. I was making some damn good progress and hit a good groove but lost the battle to my injury. I guess it's time to do something different, maybe squat heavy 2x week w/ a light day and do light weight w/ deadlfts and maybe higher reps.

[Mark Rippetoe]

What have you done to try to make it heal?

[JB1981]

What have you done to try to make it heal?

Hi Rip,

I thought this thread may have been dead but I am glad to see you have responded to my post. I injured my back in July 2008. I rehabbed it with regular chiropractic adjustments and NSAIDS. I never did PT or anything like that. I have had an on-again, off-again thing going on with the gym since 2008. I finally decided to get really serious about the SS program about 8 weeks ago and started back up again, for real this time. I made good progress, put on about 15lbs in 6 weeks. My back hurt basically the entire time. I got through my workouts, but I have had pain every day since. When I sit at work, my legs hurt. When I sit in the car, my back hurts. After I deadlift, my back kills me. After a hard set of squats, my back spasms. When I wake up in the morning after a good workout, my back is crazy stiff. It hurts bending over, it hurts raising my legs when sitting. Sitting here typing this I am in pain.

I squat with a belt, I have pretty good form and I was feeling stronger. My lifts after 6 weeks, and not completely detrained, were the following:

Squat 260x5x3
Deadlift 255x5
Press 135x5x3
Bench 190x5x3

These numbers are really out of whack, I know. Prior to SS I spent a lot of time working on my upper body, doing a lot of split routine shit and press/bench are relatively strong compared to my squat/deadlift. I wasn't doing cleans because I wanted to get my deadlift stronger and not put too much strain on my low back too early. I would do anything to be able to continue to squat and deadlift but I don't know if deadlifts are in my future. I can usually get by with squats but I feel like my back never ever fucking heals and never gets STRONG. I feel like I am in a constant state of injury. I am at the point where I am considering some kind of surgery.

If it helps, here is vid of me deadlifting. Looking at this again I don't think I'm getting into good low back extension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_QRLkCUOQw

squat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wy-v...eature=related

I know you have experience with a lot of injuries and have rehabbed herniated L5 discs with deadlifts. If you have any other advice you can give me I would be glad to hear it and try to incorporate it into my lifts/rehab. Thank you for your help.