Rips Shoulder

[Mark Rippetoe]

Speaking of old guys, you once mentioned a modification to the SS program for old guys having them squat only twice a week. I'm wondering if you meant that they should just have two workouts per week or have three and just omit the squat for one of them.

Old guys can try anything they want to.

[Craig]

Rip, did you get all those injuries from lifting ? Reading this board and looking at my injured knees, I'm starting to think that maybe lifting isn't that safe after all.

You guys are jerking my heart out here. Do you know how long it's been since I've had a pain-free workout? About 25 years. If you can't train hurt, you cant train more than about 6 months before you'll quit. There are ways to cope. Figure them out.

(from another topic)

I'm not saying that lifting isn't worth it if you're going to get injured somewhere down the line, but I remember part of "Starting strength" making a case of how safe the sport is under the right supervision. Were you not under the right supervision yourself ? I've had a number of people tell me that "injury is a part of the sport", but they were the same persons who squatted with their neck overextended and did partial benches with ridiculous weight. Somehow, some of them managed to stay injury free (also, fairly stagnant in terms of progress, but that's another subject) while I did not. I used to recommend lifting to everybody, in part because I absolutely love it but also because I thought they'd be fine as long as they stayed careful, but now I figure maybe the right attitude is "the sport is as rewarding as unsafe".

[Mark Rippetoe]

Somehow, some of them managed to stay injury free (also, fairly stagnant in terms of progress, but that's another subject)

Did you just start reading this board?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Old guys can try anything they want to.

To which I can only add: A-fucking-men!

[Craig]

I've been reading around since April so I wouldn't look too stupid on my first post.

[Carlos Daniel]

Did you just start reading this board?

I think it depends on just what you call injury. I have not seen a lot of torn pecs and quads around here, most of the injury questions around here seem to be about stuff that happened playing some sport that bother them when they bench or whatever.

There's also a difference between lifting because you want to get strong and lifting so you can compete and win. There's this story about how Dave Tate torn his pec just about 20 times, his whole chest and arm turning purple on every single one of those times.

[Symmetry]

I'm starting to think that maybe lifting isn't that safe after all.

I know Rip was in a motorcycle accident, but given all the chronic injuries he seems to have and all the chronic injuries I've seen discussed on this forum it raises some questions. I can deal with pain that eventually goes away, but I don't want a body like Phil Jackson's when I'm 55. Given that I am a newbie (this is my first post, but I've read probably 1000 of them) I don't want to waste Rip's time and ask him a question he's heard 100x before, but can anyone else refer me to a good post/article talking about why we shouldn't be worried about lifting heavy weights (done frequently) causing long term damage to our bodies?

Are there any scientific studies showing that lifting using SS-like programs are not harmful to your joints (and everything else) in the long run?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have had many more wrecks than the one that broke my knee, not all of them on motorcycles. And there aren't any scientific studies that deal with training with heavy weights at all. I don't recommend -- and I never have -- that you lift weights competitively, or play any sport competitively, if you are more concerned with long-term health than winning. Sounds like you might just want to stick with Wellness.

[Mr.City]

I know Rip was in a motorcycle accident, but given all the chronic injuries he seems to have and all the chronic injuries I've seen discussed on this forum it raises some questions. I can deal with pain that eventually goes away, but I don't want a body like Phil Jackson's when I'm 55. Given that I am a newbie (this is my first post, but I've read probably 1000 of them) I don't want to waste Rip's time and ask him a question he's heard 100x before, but can anyone else refer me to a good post/article talking about why we shouldn't be worried about lifting heavy weights (done frequently) causing long term damage to our bodies?

Are there any scientific studies showing that lifting using SS-like programs are not harmful to your joints (and everything else) in the long run?

Everything is damaging to your joints, including time and everyday activity. No one leaves this world in mint condition.

[Symmetry]

I don't recommend -- and I never have -- that you lift weights competitively, or play any sport competitively, if you are more concerned with long-term health than winning. Sounds like you might just want to stick with Wellness.

Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by "wellness", and how that relates to a SS program. I searched whether you've written anything on it and can't find anything.

My goal is really just functional strength. I want to be a strong guy whose strength helps him in hockey, rock climbing, basketball, arm wrestling, etc. Just normal athletic stuff. I want to be a "more useful" person in real life, not better in the weight room. I am 6'3 and 185lbs right now. Is there some max weight (just based on your intuition) that you would suggest that I don't try that hard to go beyond when it comes to the main lifts if I prefer long term health/usefulness over being extremely strong? Or were you suggesting with "wellness" that I not use the SS program at all?