Rips Shoulder

[The Emancipated Freak]

Are there any scientific studies showing that lifting using SS-like programs are not harmful to your joints (and everything else) in the long run?

Lifting weights strengthens joints last I checked. I don't see why lifting weights in a fairly conservative program would make much of a difference.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I have had many more wrecks than the one that broke my knee, not all of them on motorcycles. And there aren't any scientific studies that deal with training with heavy weights at all. I don't recommend -- and I never have -- that you lift weights competitively, or play any sport competitively, if you are more concerned with long-term health than winning. Sounds like you might just want to stick with Wellness.

Along with an A-fucking-men, let's say, can I get a witness for that. The highest level of competition I made it to were the NCAA regionals in judo at age 20. I broke my ankle there hopping over a foot sweep to avoid losing. I landed bad and that was it. I was out. If i had known then what I know now about lifting and form, I'd probably have done the powerlifting thing full bore and ended up with many of the same kinks Rip has. Even though I managed not to do that I still (at 60) have enough aches from the martial arts and just other life and work activities I intentionally put myself through. There's a lot to be said for wellness, but you often don't get that perspective unfortunately until you have accumulated enough dings to make it apparent.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I am 6'3 and 185lbs right now. Is there some max weight (just based on your intuition) that you would suggest that I don't try that hard to go beyond when it comes to the main lifts if I prefer long term health/usefulness over being extremely strong? Or were you suggesting with "wellness" that I not use the SS program at all?

I'd suggest that if you are afraid of handling weights heavy enough to make you strong, this program will not work. The loads build gradually, and the process is described in detail in PPST2. But eventually the load will be challenging. Maybe you'll just stop there, or maybe the process of getting there will have taught you something you don't yet know.

[Jefferson]

Do you think you'd be so banged up if you hadn't trained through or around injuries and allowed them to heal fully? IE prioritized health over continued progress? Is this what you meant by competitive lifting/sports being bad for you?

[Mark Rippetoe]

It never occurred to me that there was another approach. I was a competitive lifter, and I still approach my training the same basic way I did then, moderated only by my inability to do more.

[Steve Hill]

Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by "wellness", and how that relates to a SS program. I searched whether you've written anything on it and can't find anything.

My goal is really just functional strength. I want to be a strong guy whose strength helps him in hockey, rock climbing, basketball, arm wrestling, etc. Just normal athletic stuff. I want to be a "more useful" person in real life, not better in the weight room. I am 6'3 and 185lbs right now. Is there some max weight (just based on your intuition) that you would suggest that I don't try that hard to go beyond when it comes to the main lifts if I prefer long term health/usefulness over being extremely strong? Or were you suggesting with "wellness" that I not use the SS program at all?

Have you read PPfST? The reason that I ask is this: In PPfSt, Mark and Stef and Kilgore talk about something known as genetic potential - which is what determines how much you can ultimately lift. There's little in the way of telling what this is without comitting to finding out (in other words, training really hard for a long, long time). Given that, how is anyone supposed to give you a number in any lift which you should lift up to (but no more since you could get hurt!)?

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing in this world that is "safe." Being stronger will make you safer when you do other activites, but there is also an inherent risk that goes along with the "getting stronger" part that cannot be avoided. You'll have to do your own cost / benefit analysis on that, because, as I stated above, it's impossible to state a number that that happens at.

[Mark E. Hurling]

It never occurred to me that there was another approach. I was a competitive lifter, and I still approach my training the same basic way I did then, moderated only by my inability to do more.

I'm glad you decided to tell us this Rip. Do you still drive yourself to the edge of your envelope because you like it, or because it's the most effective way to, and I quote here, "stave off death?" I keep wrestling with myself in my own head wondering when "enough" will be enough. I know Dearly Beloved would certainly be reassured if I didn't try doing what I'm pretty sure is a significantly milder version of what you do but then she doesn't have the same wiring schematic I do about goals these days.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It's certainly not the best thing for my health. But I like training hard, and I'm not very good at putting the bar up when I should. I stopped at my last warmup Monday night because my knees hurt, but I felt like a pussy until I did the press PR.

[Justinnnnnn]

Rip, in a similar vein, if you were to take everything you now know about form, programming, anatomy, etc, basically everything you know now, and start again at age 15 or 20 or whatever age you started at, do you think you'd be less banged up by the time you got to your current age?

Obviously, life is a learning process, so I guess I'm asking if you think your current level of knowledge could have prevented many of the injuries you carry now? Thanks,

[Mark E. Hurling]

I just can't bring myself to say thanks for sharing, so instead I'll say I appreciate the insight and your willingness to talk about it. Dearly Beloved tries to understand why I tax myself the way I do, both under the iron and on the mat. I can't explain it but thank God for my chiro.