Mr. Miyagi, a man of great wisdom. Eclipsing even Yoda.
Member
From my own experience, you're more likely to get hurt using light weights with bad form than you are from using heavier weights with good form. Squatting 405 with perfect form seems safer to me than squatting 225 with shitty form.Originally Posted by Symmetry
✓ Member
Mr. Miyagi, a man of great wisdom. Eclipsing even Yoda.
Member
Symmetry, you won't know the answer to this until you get to 1.5/1/2x bw s/b/dl. At this point you might be happy with your functional strength. Or you might realize you didn't get beat up too bad in the process, you actually enjoy the kind of work that goes into getting stronger, and think you can do even better without compromising your quality of life after 50 (presumably you will have learned good form along the way). Look at your numbers as an intermediate goal not a limit.
I have found improvement to be addictive. It is the prospect of continued improvement that motivates me to keep training hard 3 days a week, do very moderate cardio 2x, eat well, take vitamins, fish oil, etc., get (close to) enough sleep. All things I should have been doing all along, but didn't. But I like working hard and improving, even if it is maddeningly slow now, and I'm actually scared not to do all the other stuff. Im 47, and it just wouldn't end well. At some point it does take a certain resolve to continue, and you might acquire this along the way. You won't know until you are there.
Finally, be smart but don't think you can "save yourself" for later. My dad is a very strong athletic man whose knees degenerated at a young age (80 year old knees at age 40) from old football injuries. Back in the 70s, knee replacement wasn't what it is now and they recommended delaying this as long as possible. Don't run, walk; don't walk if you can drive. That was what he was told. He had the operation around age 60, retired at age 64, and was diagnosed with Alzheimers a short time later. Not saying be stupid about it, or become a competitive powerlifter, but shit happens no matter how careful you are, so keep going if you like the process and what it does for you.
Member
That is most likely a bell shaped curve actually. When you do what it takes to squat 1000lbs you will have some wear on your joints. At the same time though, lifting weights increases growth hormone and testosterone both acutely, and over time chronically. These hormones actually help stimulate synovial fluid production in the joints as well as some limited cartilage repair.
The take home message is basically if you are using strength training as a supplement to other endeavors, and do it correctly, you are not going to be handling enough weight to "wear down" your joints, and in fact will probably keep them healthy longer because of it.
✓ Member
I'll try to phrase this as diplomatically as I can. Please don't try Steve's or my patience with excessive literalism about a pretty good martial arts metaphor about focusing on and thinking about what you are doing and what you are in the dojo or gym for.
I want to believe you are smarter than this, but let me give you some data points for review and to think about in terms of your own efforts. I'm 60, 5'11" and 205 after losing 30 lbs. from August of 2010. I just managed a 315 SQ, a 365 DL, last month and before somehow hurting my right delt, a 255 BP some months back. I failed on a run at 225 on the OHP last week and this week at a 2nd bite at the apple although I did manage 215 three months ago. I kept away from squats, deadlifts, and bench presses for nearly 20 years because of bad form resulting in shoulder and lower back pains. My best DL was 405 in early 40's and I have complete confidence I will exceed that if not this year, early next year. I doubt I ever squatted to parallel until this year and I know I'll make a heavier weight than 315 before I can't. Let me reiterate for emphasis, I'm fucking 60! I don't know your age but you can surely do better than this.
Now I don't want to call someone a pussy but I seem to be detecting a faint dor of heated sake. Or is that cat piss from a neutered tom cat trying to mark some territory?
TMPHBITEU
Hurling, I'm really beginning to doubt that you're 60.
Member
Can you explain the analogy to me? The entire reason that someone training with low intensity in karate would get hurt is because presumably he would be fighting people who trained harder, and would be beaten up. How does that correspond to lifting? For the analogy to work, that aspect of karate has to correspond to something in lifting. What is it? In lifting, I completely control how good (heavy) my opponent (weights) are. If I make sure I have extremely good form and lift light, how am I more likely to be hurt than if I lift heavy weights? Doesn't your argument imply that body-weight squats would be the most dangerous at all?
Anyway, it sounds like you are pretty strong and reasonably functional. How many years total experience of heavy lifting do you have though? It sounds like you took a 20 year break from the "big lifts". What were you doing during that time? And what were you doing before you got hurt 20 years ago?
Regarding who is and isn't a pussy. To me a pussy is someone who knows an activity is low risk and shies away from it because they can't tolerate even small risks. Or someone who can't take whatever pain/discomfort is necessary for their long term goals, even though they know it would help them achieve their goals. I am simply trying to find out what the risk is, and none of my long term goals (yet) involve setting super high PRs in weightlifting.
✓ Member
Jeez Rip why? It can't be from the "excessive" and potentially "dangerous" poundages I subject myself to. DOB: 9-22-50, A Virgo to hell and gone again.
By the way, that should have been odor, not dor. I was a little ripped (you should forgive the term) from cheap-ass Albertson's wodka when I typed that. This condition manifested itself in several of my posts in Ends and Pieces as well. Sorry.
Member
In addition to all that is said I'd recommend gearing yourself up, taking extra attention on form, and knowing your limits.
When I say gear up I mean shoes, belt, chalk and straps for a designated area if needed.
I got injured failing a BP and not having a spotter around, my left shoulder+wrist were a mess(flared out elbows, awful BB style technique) and the mild pain is still there but it is constantly getting better, first month or so were awful and I stuck with starr's protocol, no heavy pressings were possible my hand was literally shaking if I tried anything beyond 70%.
After that icy month, I started training back to my old PRs, took like one more month till I was confident enough and started lifting 90% of my old PRs, pain was there, every time I hit 90%>* weights pressing anything my wrist+shoulder hurt as hell(I tried an inclined BP, normal BP, OHP with a barbell/dumbbell they all hurt)
I eventually bought basic 12 inch wrist wraps and used them whenever approaching 90>* weights -was basically 1-2 sets out of 7-9 on the BP/OHP, I also went through several BP technique videos from Dave Tate and focused on the lift for a few weeks, I learned the hard way that all multi-joint barbell movements should be diligently practiced with a good form before even thinking about PRs.
It's been 2 months now and the shoulder pain is almost 100% gone(can feel it when doing a RM3 BP or a PR) and the wrist is just fine(hurts only when I try extreme flexion, not at all while training)
I also use the wraps on intense PCs btw.
There are the ones who say you should gear up from 50%>*(not talking about world class powerlifters ofc, but the normal jow in the gym) they use straps on every possible joint and look like a Christmas present from a 200 lb squat and up.
Some say man up, go raw as a nudist and strengthen your body up slowly.
Both approaches are stupid IMO, no real thought behind it, just know your limits and find out what's working best for you.
Everyone gets smashed under a bar while squatting, or can barely unlock the bar while deadlifting, that's a part of any linear program.
Once you reach your goal whatever it may be, you will realize that what was once heavy is now moderate.
Training experience and schedule should be based on numbers and percentages, once you over-think and psychologically cripple yourself you will hit a plateau over and over again, if 1.5X squat is your goal you'll get stuck at 1.4...
Member
No shit... that's extremely inspirational, MH! After the 260lb Squats & 295lb DL's (PR's), thoroughly kicked my ass on Wed, I've been thinking I may not have what it takes to DTFP at 48 yrs young. All of a sudden, the stench of cat piss (and heated sake...that's fuckin' funny BTW), seems to be clearing. Thanks MH!
Posting Permissions