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Thread: Advanced Novice with a weak deadlift

  1. #1
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    Default Advanced Novice with a weak deadlift

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    Hi Mark,

    Sorry this is such a long post for a simple question, but most of it is background information that you don't have to read (just answers to the follow up questions I've seen you asking other posters). I appreciate your time. First my question:

    I'm doing the basic novice routine, 11 weeks in, and despite its simple nature I managed to screw it up. Right now my squat worksets are at 295# and my deadlift worksets are at 285#. I've just finished a reset on my squat, and per PPST2 I am going to begin doing the light squats on Wednesdays, adding 5 lbs on Mon+Fri. In the book, once a trainee has reached this stage it is recommended that back extensions be done every other workout so that pulls are not done as often. Given that my pulls are lower than they should be, should I wait on the back ext. and continue to simply alternate deadlift with power cleans? IOW:

    Mon: SQ, BP/PR, DL/PC
    Wed: Light SQ, PR/BP, PC/DL
    Fri: SQ, BP/PR, DL/PC

    ...and just do this until my deadlift gets back out ahead of my squat where it should be? The thing is, I really feel like I could benefit from doing the back extensions as my low back is definately the weak link in my deadlift, but if I only deadlift every 4th workout, it will continue to trail my squat. Obviously my squat will not continue to grow forever, but I'm not sure what to do here.

    - Background, should you need it and/or care -

    As best I can tell, my deadlift is lagging for the following reasons: I spent about 4 weeks doing stupid stuff like taking 5 lbs jumps when I could have taken 10 and fiddling around with belt vs. no belt on my worksets; I did not deadlift every workout at the start; and I began Power Cleans rather late. Guess I DNDTP. Please don't kill me, for I am truly penitent. Per your oft repeated instructions I've taken video of my lifts and compared them with the numerous examples of both good and bad form found here, and don't see any glaring problems. I can post examples if necessary. Here is my progress over the last 11 weeks, with workset weights and current increments:

    SQ: 135 >> 295
    - 5 lbs jumps
    DL: 185 >> 285
    - 10 lbs jumps
    BP: 115 >> 182.5
    - 2.5 lbs jumps
    PR: 80 >> 125
    - 2.5 lbs jumps
    PC: 85 >> 155
    - 10 lbs jumps

    BW is 215, up from 205. 5'10" 27yo male. Previous lifting experience is limited too 4 fairly lackluster months doing SS last summer, but I didn't eat right and skipped too many workouts so it didn't go so well. Doing much better this time. Also, I just read PPST and it has been most helpful in understanding the program. I'm a lifelong non-athelete but trying to do something about that.

    P.S. My squats are not high, I promise.

  2. #2
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    I'm doing the basic novice routine, 11 weeks in, and despite its simple nature I managed to screw it up. Right now my squat worksets are at 295# and my deadlift worksets are at 285#. I've just finished a reset on my squat, and per PPST2 I am going to begin doing the light squats on Wednesdays, adding 5 lbs on Mon+Fri. In the book, once a trainee has reached this stage it is recommended that back extensions be done every other workout so that pulls are not done as often. Given that my pulls are lower than they should be, should I wait on the back ext. and continue to simply alternate deadlift with power cleans?
    Since you're trying to catch your deadlift up, drop the back extensions and just deadlift/power clean every other workout.

  3. #3
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    Thanks, will do. Got 295 this morning so at least now they're even.

    If I may, for future reference why do you prescribe back extensions as opposed to say, RDL's? I ask in light of your favoring isometric ab work over situps or other exercises that move the spine through a range of motion. What am I missing there?

    Also, you get this a lot but thanks for having this Q&A. It's a bit like being able to ask Bill Gates about my computer problems. Very cool.

  4. #4
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    My thinking on back extensions have changed over the past couple of years. RDLs done with a weight appropriate for a light pull in the programming would certainly be acceptable, if you're able to contain your enthusiasm and keep things in the proper context. Back extensions are inherently less stressful on the back, but done incorrectly they can wreck your hamstrings, and the spinal flexion is a problem for some people, so RDLs might be preferable depending on the individual.

  5. #5
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    I, much like the OP, have a horrid deadlift in relation to my squat are a result of:
    1) having short legs and a long back
    2) a weak lower back
    3) and being substantially underweight to the tune of at least 40lbs

    I've been able to start rebuilding my deadlift and make solid gains by adding some RDLs as an accessory lift. I keep them no heavier than 225 for sets of 8.

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