A weaker deadlift because of new heeled shoes?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If Rippetoe himself said that, he was generalizing. This is sometimes necessary, but it is confusing for some people.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

Other lifts were not as effected, that's why I asked.

FYI, I realize my experiences are pretty hard to apply, since I am short and female. But whenever I cut fat, my other lifts are affected only slightly, or they remain unaffected, or they continue to progress, but at a very slow rate. But my DL always takes a hit. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the level of demand it puts on the body compared to the other lifts.

[Agent P]

whenever I cut fat, my other lifts are affected only slightly, or they remain unaffected, or they continue to progress, but at a very slow rate. But my DL always takes a hit.

This has been my experience as well.

[Mac Ward]

I've been (and remain) a skinny guy (6'3, 200lbs up from 175). That being said, I imagine I have had average success with the ladies, and in no point in my life did any one of them agree to sleep with me based on my abs, barbell strength, lack of body fat, or otherwise. My 43 years of experience tells me that Spar's advice is right.

Additionally, I find that companionship is more likely found by accident and not when I was out slobbering, drooling, and fawning over some bar fly.

Now I'm married so I no longer have to worry about it. (Take that one any way you want.)

[Raleighwood]

Two Things:

1. Changing the heel size and other attributes of a shoe, will affect performance on the short term. You've changed the movement pattern and specific mechanics of the lift. If you don't feel comfortable, or stable, in the new position your nervous system is not going to put out maximum effort.

2. Losing weight is going to affect your strength in multiple ways. You probably lost some lean muscle tissue, you definitely lost water, and your total mass is less. This will allow any other force of resistance to act upon your body at a more favorable percentage. Therefore, making a similar weight seem more intense.

Of course, if you adapt to the changes these drops in performance can be pretty short lived. But it does illustrate the importance of gaining body weight and using gear that makes you stable, if you want to have maximal strength.

[David_G]

Why in these conversations is there always someone who sets this up as though, if you keep some extra bodyfat for the purposes of maintaining an anabolic environment, this means you don’t give a shit about how you look? Can we please just stop with this false dichotomy and come from the assumption that people who respect themselves can still look at a little extra fluff on the mirror without turning away from themselves in horror? This is just as bad as bashing people for wanting to be lean.

Wanting to be lean is fine, but there are some points in one’s training when trying to stay lean will get in the way. Being a little fluffy is fine, too, and good for putting on strength and muscle, but it’s not a requirement to be fluffy to be considered strong.



I find that men grossly overestimate the extent to which pussy responds to muscles. I think strength is a great pursuit for many, many reasons, and every human being should strive to be stronger. And if getting more pussy is one motivation for it, then great. But a lot of guys need to tone down their expectations for what bigger muscles will do for them in the pussy department and think for a minute about why it actually works for those men it works for. Because men who have thought processes simple enough to assume that muscle will solve all their problems in the pussy department tend to have overall thought processes that kind of creep women out.

If the OP or anyone else wants to think he looks totally respectable at 22%, then can we stop acting as though they are in danger of becoming hideous specimens of humanity whom the dogs will bark at in the street? If that guy is smart, clean, interesting, and has some social skills, he can get some pussy, I promise. And if he’s strong, he can lift the barbell. 22% bodyfat does not make anyone useless or a pariah.

I have never mentioned anything about the pussy department, I do NOT train to impress females or get pussy, I train because I want stable joins and stronger erectors, when my knees started to hurt as well as my lower back before SS as a young 22 YO slob I knew I need a change and I need to get stronger, a 22 YO should not feel like a 70 YO unless something is really fucked up.

As I mentioned, while gaining weight and getting stronger I eat a lot and I know I'd finish 40 lbs heavier, I always overeat so that there are no problems with recovery, after I go down to 205 I'd expect to be up at 240 or so 4-5 months later, which is fine by me. I guess I'd find my true BW at the middle of TM, when BW would start to get more stable, I can't gain 8 lbs a month till the end of time

FYI, I realize my experiences are pretty hard to apply, since I am short and female. But whenever I cut fat, my other lifts are affected only slightly, or they remain unaffected, or they continue to progress, but at a very slow rate. But my DL always takes a hit. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the level of demand it puts on the body compared to the other lifts.

Good point there. This is my experience also, all the lifts are the same, bench even improved, only the deadlift went down
I guess the deadlift being mostly handled last on ones workout also has it's toll on the lift

Two Things:

1. Changing the heel size and other attributes of a shoe, will affect performance on the short term. You've changed the movement pattern and specific mechanics of the lift. If you don't feel comfortable, or stable, in the new position your nervous system is not going to put out maximum effort.

2. Losing weight is going to affect your strength in multiple ways. You probably lost some lean muscle tissue, you definitely lost water, and your total mass is less. This will allow any other force of resistance to act upon your body at a more favorable percentage. Therefore, making a similar weight seem more intense.

Of course, if you adapt to the changes these drops in performance can be pretty short lived. But it does illustrate the importance of gaining body weight and using gear that makes you stable, if you want to have maximal strength.

I suppose I don't exert my muscles 100% because of the new slightly different mechanics, just feels weaker, I believe a month of SS would fix it all right up.

Back to SS next week :P

[EvanJones]

AFAIK even Rippetoe himself says that going any higher than 20% bf isn't necessary to get strong.

What in the world does AFAIK mean? Can we use our grown up words? I won't speak for Rip. Being above 20% will not keep him from getting stronger. Trying to slim down while training can keep him from getting stronger. All I'm saying is if the OP's training is progressing well, why change anything unless there is some immediate need.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

I have never mentioned anything about the pussy department, I do NOT train to impress females or get pussy, I train because [...]

My comment wasn’t directed at you, FYI. It was directed at Qvistus. There’s always a Qvistus or several on a thread like this.

I guess the deadlift being mostly handled last on ones workout also has it's toll on the lift

I generally don’t program DL on the same days that I squat, but it takes a hit anyway. It really does have something to do with the DL itself, in my experience. But once again, short woman here. My observations may not apply to males. FWIW, anecdotal grousing among men I know who lift indicates that this is the case for men, too.

What in the world does AFAIK mean? Can we use our grown up words?

Some Internet abbreviations/acronyms are quite useful. AFAIK (As far as I know) is a good one, IMO (in my opinion).

I say let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater just bcos ther r retrds who rite 2 u lik this on teh webz.

[forgeforth]

I find that men grossly overestimate the extent to which pussy responds to muscles. I think strength is a great pursuit for many, many reasons, and every human being should strive to be stronger. And if getting more pussy is one motivation for it, then great. But a lot of guys need to tone down their expectations for what bigger muscles will do for them in the pussy department and think for a minute about why it actually works for those men it works for. Because men who have thought processes simple enough to assume that muscle will solve all their problems in the pussy department tend to have overall thought processes that kind of creep women out.

If the OP or anyone else wants to think he looks totally respectable at 22%, then can we stop acting as though they are in danger of becoming hideous specimens of humanity whom the dogs will bark at in the street? If that guy is smart, clean, interesting, and has some social skills, he can get some pussy, I promise. And if he’s strong, he can lift the barbell. 22% bodyfat does not make anyone useless or a pariah.

This is true. Pussy is far more receptive to money, which is what men should be striving toward as opposed to how their abdominals look.

The quest for strength should be, at least in part, about making yourself a more complete man. This is how I think about it. Develop your intelligence and physical strengths so that: a) you're not a burden to society and b) you accumulate enough self respect that you're not going to let the opinions of women at the club transform your lifestyle. The fact is, women are attracted to alpha males and muscularity is usually associated with this. Unfortunately, the majority of men think this is accomplished by being 145 pounds and 8% body fat. But we all know that most women don't give a shit, anyway, because if you don't satisfy her psychological indicators within the first few seconds, you're irrelevant. Or perhaps I read far too much? As always, I am very interested in Rip's opinion on this.

And Even: AFAIK = As far as I know.

[EvanJones]

Some Internet abbreviations/acronyms are quite useful. AFAIK (As far as I know) is a good one, IMO (in my opinion).

I say let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater just bcos ther r retrds who rite 2 u lik this on teh webz.

If you were writing me a text message I might agree. However, you have an entire keyboard in front of you. I hunt and peck and can still type full words with great ease. Besides, phrasing like 'As far as I know' and 'In my opinion" are just bad writing. I tell people that Starting Strength is the Strunk and White of weight training books. You guys should check out The Elements of Style by Strunk and White.