Gaining strength with Minimal Muscle Hypertrophy

[Philbert]

To relate it to the current thread, the body will use the same amount of energy (and require the same amount of oxygen) to perform a task irrelevant of it's percentage of max. Or stated another way, improving maximal strength wouldn't reduce the amount of oxygen the body needs to do a task.

I think it is important to realize that the energy required by the work done is a small part of the body's O2 demand in most activities. Far more significant is the demand of elevated heart rate and sympathetic nervous system tone that is necessary to support near-maximal effort. Reducing the number of activities which would require near maximal effort would therefore outweigh the slight increase in O2 consumption due to increased BMR and increased body weight to carry. Just keep up with the hill sprints/prowler so you maintain your fitness in the medium "time domain".

[Carlos Daniel]

I don't know is this was overlooked or if I missed it, but there is the fact that a 240 lbs man walking or running upstairs has to move 100 lbs more pounds than a 140 lbs.

Now, I'm not arguing that being a strong 240lbs is worse than being a weak 140 lbs, I'm just pointing out the fact that not only does the heavier man have more muscle, but he also has more weight to move around.

[PressesPeople]

To the OP:

I think what Rip is trying to say to you is that an athlete can be very muscular and very conditioned simultaneously. It's not some sort of sliding scale, where strength goes up and VO2 Max goes down. It's just that as one puts on more muscle, it becomes necessary to train the cardiovascular system to support that new muscle mass efficiently.

Now, if you're in a situation where there is literally a limited amount of free oxygen (such as locked in an airtight room for an extended period of time), then the excess oxygen consumption that comes from being bigger might be an issue. But, considering how unlikely of a situation that is, the benefits of being bigger AND stronger far outweigh the risks.

[tfarny]

From a scuba diver's perspective, which seems oddly relevant - minimizing exertion (being able to do X easily and efficiently) seems to matter more than total mass when looking at o2 consumption. Scuba divers don't use much strength on a regular basis, but when the group comes up against a current or something, you quickly find out who is conditioned and an efficient kicker and who is not - the least efficient person always ends the dive for everyone else by running out of air, and it's not always the biggest guy.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't know is this was overlooked or if I missed it, but there is the fact that a 240 lbs man walking or running upstairs has to move 100 lbs more pounds than a 140 lbs.

Now, I'm not arguing that being a strong 240lbs is worse than being a weak 140 lbs, I'm just pointing out the fact that not only does the heavier man have more muscle, but he also has more weight to move around.

Carlos, you've got 4600 posts and you don't know that a bigger motor doesn't slow the car down? Sure, he has more mass to move, but relative to the loads he has to handle he's at least capable of doing the job, not just capable of saving O2.

[Carlos Daniel]

Carlos, you've got 4600 posts and you don't know that a bigger motor doesn't slow the car down? Sure, he has more mass to move, but relative to the loads he has to handle he's at least capable of doing the job, not just capable of saving O2.

I do get your point, Rip, don't fret! I guess it depends on how much power one requires: a V12 motor on a lawn-mower is not gonna make the lawn-mowing any easier.

But this probably does not apply to the case at hand anyway.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't think it does.

[mlentzner]

My take would be that the guy with the best strength to weight ratio is going to be the most efficient with his air since he will be exerting himself the least doing similar tasks. There's a wrinkle in this since you're going to be wearing bunker gear and SCBA which comes out to about 50 lbs. So you need to be strong enough that this isn't a significant load for you. And you need to have some extra juice to pull a hose, etc.

For an average 5'10" guy I would guess about 185# at 10%bf would be around the optimum where you can be pretty strong absolutely, as well as high relative strength, and a lot of endurance. For most average Joes that means you need to add 20-30 lbs of muscle. SS is perfect for that.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'd say the 5'10" guy is more useful at 215, 15% bodyfat. He'll be much stronger. You've got to kick the CF habit, lentzner.

[mlentzner]

I'd say that Crossfit the sport is much more interesting to me than Crossfit the training program. It's a crazy experiment, but there's nothing else like it.

I tried to look up the ht/wt of the best performers at the Firefighter Combat challenge competitions and didn't have any luck. Maybe someone else can find it. Maybe the test itself is not very applicable, but it would be a good start. Certainly all the tasks are in there.

According to Casey Butt, getting to 215@15% without steroids would be pretty challenging for an average person. Maybe you don't think much of his work, but it seems legit to me.