Hip-toe connection Hip-toe connection - Page 3

starting strength gym
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46

Thread: Hip-toe connection

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    22

    Default

    • wichita falls texas december seminar 2020
    • wichita falls texas february 2021 seminar
    • starting strength seminar april 2021
    When talking about the angle of the feet what is not mentioned is tibial torsion. It was at least acknowledged in SS3 which I cannot look at as I have lent it out. It did state that placing the feet at 30 degrees was a starting point and not an absolute.

    When my knees are pointed forward my left foot is externally rotated ~10 degrees and my right foot is rotated ~25 degrees. The rotation of my right foot seems excessive and when I ride a bike my knee wants to be pointing straight forward which makes my heel hit the frame of the bike.

    Obviously both my feet should not be at the same angle when squatting. When I started squatting 4 months ago I set up lines on the floor so that my left foot was at a 25 degree angle and my right foot was at a 35 degree angle. Is this an appropriate adjustment? My right knee will never be over my foot (at least the front of it) no matter what angle I use. Are there other anatomical cues to use to get proper foot position?

    I tried to find out what is a normal tibial torsion and the only thing I could find was an old study that said 20 degrees was average. I find that hard to believe because my 25 degrees feels quite excessive.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    169

    Default

    although Kelly has yet to actually post a full on "squat form" video noting stance width, grip, depth, etc, I have noticed most of the time he squats to demonstrate feet forward, he takes (not quite as wide) a more powerlifting stance width. I say this because a lot of people are worried about the knees being way outside the feet and creating sketchy unwanted forces, and this will certainly happen with a closer SS style width, but with a slightly wider stance the knees line up nicer with the feet (though the angles are NOT parallel).

    So if you're truly experimenting with this, I suggest when you adjust toe angle, you also adjust stance width.

    Personally, I've tried both for my warm-ups but have yet to try a toes forward stance for a heavy work set or max effort. Less to do with feeling unsafe, more to do not being as accustomed to feet forward. And I don't collapse my arches or cave my knees with toes out so I don't think Kelly's concerns apply to me.

    That being said, I'm always open to trying new things, and figuring out what works best for the individual. I think Rip (hopefully) would agree that if you have a good base of strength and can perform a safe and efficient SS style squat but want to experiment with different styles that may lend themselves more to your anthropometry and enhance your performance, then by all means go for it. Otherwise stick to what works.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    La Jolla California
    Posts
    2,023

    Default

    I had been struggling with my toe angle a lot recently. Because of a severe weight loss (70 pounds) my work set strnegth is greatly diminsihed. For this reason I have been struggling with much lighter weights, and with knees caving in issues, which I was trying to fix by futzing with my toe angle. Because my recent work sets have been much lighter than my previous 5RM, I have not been wearing a belt. Until yesterday.

    Yesterday I belted up. I squatted down and I came up. Toes at about 20-25 degrees, which feels comfortable for me and allows my femur to properly track. No knee issues at all. Being belted really helped me maintain my knees out position by helping me brace my guts, my ass, my hips, my flexors, my everything. I think that wearing a proper belt might help others strugling with the toe position issue if they are trying to strnegthen the "knees out" position.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    12,244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blowdpanis View Post
    Aside from vastus lateralis, glute max (due to its attachment to the IT band) and biceps femoris (due to its attachment to the fibula) would both be under more stretch with the relatively internally rotated tibia. As such, you could make a case that this increase in stretch on two of the prime movers in the squat might better store elastic energy during the descent, resulting in a potentially stronger rebound. I think this is what he means by "more torque at the hip." Or, if it's not, I'm not sure what else it could refer to
    While Rip and I both have theorized about the IT band, on second thought, I'm not sure. The IT band attaches pretty firmly to the distal end of the femur and essentially plays the role of a ligament at the knee. It seems unlikely that extra stretch on it at the knee joint and anywhere distal to the knee would carry effects upstream.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    43,680

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianrichard View Post
    I think Rip (hopefully) would agree that if you have a good base of strength and can perform a safe and efficient SS style squat but want to experiment with different styles that may lend themselves more to your anthropometry and enhance your performance, then by all means go for it. Otherwise stick to what works.
    Yes, Rip agrees with brianrichard that everyone should think for themselves.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    4,917

    Default

    My contribution: The thing that I am most concerned about it the torsional loading of the knee normal to the axis of the shank (the tib/fib).

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    The popliteus muscle in the leg is used to unlock the knee during walking/running by laterally rotating the femur on the tibia (or medially rotating the tibia) during a closed chain movement (such as one with the foot in contact with the ground).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popliteus_muscle
    Kelly has mentioned this muscles role before when addressing the movement (torsion) of the knee. There is a muscle that is there to create the torsion between the two bones. If we have a muscle to create this torsion, is it really dangerous?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    43,680

    Default

    Try to envision the difference between placing the knee in this rotation when walking, and when squatting 500 pounds. This will be hard for you if you are a Reebokker.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    12,244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Damien Thompson View Post
    Kelly has mentioned this muscles role before when addressing the movement (torsion) of the knee. There is a muscle that is there to create the torsion between the two bones. If we have a muscle to create this torsion, is it really dangerous?
    There are also muscles which flex the lumbar. And muscles that pronate the feet. Their existence doesn’t mean it’s fine to do either while squatting.

    I think this kind of faulty logic is a result of the creep of fucked up understandings of “functional exercise” and bad evo-/paleo-logic. “Functional” does not always equal “natural”. The quest for a heavy barbell squat produces a shit ton of adaptations that make the body more functional. But a heavy barbell squat is not “natural”. No movement that requires years of training using precise, diligent, and regular programming to achieve is “natural”.

    So just because the body naturally can do [x] is no justification for the safety of doing [x] while squatting.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,016

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Thanks for posting these squat videos. Now, tell us what point you're trying to make.
    didn't really have a point

    clearly didn't remember how to post videos here, either

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •