Wrist circumference & genetic potential question

[Barry Charles]

Follow up question:

Coach, in your experience how many people do you see reaching (or get close to) their full genetic potential? The owner of my gym says he's never really seen it.

The reason for this question is that out of the variables effecting strength, genetics is fixed. On the other hand, if its really rare to reach your genetic potential, most of us don't need to consider it. Wrist size or other.

[OverfedZombie]

I'm 5'10", 33 years old. Wrist circumference right around 6". I'm currently squatting 295lbs. I haven't noticed any wrist growth (I can still wrap my fingers around at the same point). Just keep lifting.

[poppunk]

I did a search before writing this, just in case the whole thing's been done to death already... Basically if I have an off-the-scale TINY wrist circumference (just shy of six inches), is it a foregone conclusion that I'll never be able to squat 225lbs for example, no matter how much I eat or how hard I train? In short, are there fairly reliable ways to determine genetic potential for strength before even starting any training program?

I just checked your log and it says that you weigh 129 pounds. This is what's going to limit you from hitting a really easy 225 pounds, not wrist circumference. At your height, you should be at least be able to easily hit 250 pounds (if not 300) even at your age unless you're medically limited (one leg). This will require you to eat, and I suggest you put on at least 30 if not 50 pounds while progressing.

I'm your height, your weight, your age, haven't been squatting that long, and my tiny wrists (which I haven't measured but I'd be surprised if they're even as big as yours) aren't a limiting factor. They also haven't limited my grip on my deadlift at all (though I haven't pushed out of the high 300s), even though I have the hands of a ten year old boy. I'm not strong but even my mid-30s, tiny-wristed, tiny-hands situation didn't come close to preventing from squatting 225. Not eating enough or thinking 225 is heavy (it isn't) are the limiters here.

Wrist circumference having a high probability of limiting strength to a pathetic level sounds like bullshit to me. Can anyone provide any halfway decent research so I can at least see where this crazy shit is coming from? Maybe it matters when you're squatting 700 pounds, but 225? If you can't get to 225 you're just fucking up.

[Scrawn78]

225lbs feels heavy to me, when I deadlift it. If I was able to squat that, I'd be very happy. I've no doubt my lifts will improve a good bit, along with my bodyweight... I can no longer believe, for example that on some food labels it says that the recommended daily calories for an adult is 2000! An adult what?!

I'm not saying 'I've got to squatting 165lbs and I've stalled... Is it because of my genetic heritage?' I was just wondering whether there was some kind of ball-park I should be looking at for a guy with a small-ish frame... A guy who sits next to me at work, for example, is the same height as me but he's a totally different build. I don't want to be beating myself up for not being able to lift 225lbs if I'm comparing myself with people who'll always be way ahead of me through no fault of my own.

But all these stories are sufficiently encouraging that I'm beginning to feel a bit on the ashamed side, so I'll shut up for the time being and pipe up again in a year or so.

[Calvo]

Tiny wrist crew/350/210/407 @ 210 checking in!

I just checked your log and it says that you weigh 129 pounds. This is what's going to limit you from hitting a really easy 225 pounds, not wrist circumference. At your height, you should be at least be able to easily hit 250 pounds (if not 300) even at your age unless you're medically limited (one leg). This will require you to eat, and I suggest you put on at least 30 if not 50 pounds while progressing.

I'm your height, your weight, your age, haven't been squatting that long, and my tiny wrists (which I haven't measured but I'd be surprised if they're even as big as yours) aren't a limiting factor. They also haven't limited my grip on my deadlift at all (though I haven't pushed out of the high 300s), even though I have the hands of a ten year old boy. I'm not strong but even my mid-30s, tiny-wristed, tiny-hands situation didn't come close to preventing from squatting 225. Not eating enough or thinking 225 is heavy (it isn't) are the limiters here.

Wrist circumference having a high probability of limiting strength to a pathetic level sounds like bullshit to me. Can anyone provide any halfway decent research so I can at least see where this crazy shit is coming from? Maybe it matters when you're squatting 700 pounds, but 225? If you can't get to 225 you're just fucking up.

Also, this right here.

When people start talking about things like wrist circumference, I like to bring up this guy here. If Rip doesn't let the link through, search "Gordon Comish Deszo Ban" and read the first article that comes up. Shows how far being absolutely psychotic can take you, even with shitty genetics.

[D.W.]

I squatted 225 at a lot lighter bodyweight than i am at now, this is not a big number. I have really really small wrists and small hands, only a bit bigger than a girls hand and i'm 5'7. The only problems with this are that it limits grip strength at some point (still not happening for me) and that you get wrist injuries easier in boxing for example.
I have learned two things about genetics from experience:
1. You have no idea about your potential if you never try it, and by trying i mean really trying, not half-assed.
2. Everybody that worries about genetics a lot, also does stupid shit in the gym and gets nowhere. Get that out of your head.

[grumble]

Follow up question:

Coach, in your experience how many people do you see reaching (or get close to) their full genetic potential? The owner of my gym says he's never really seen it.

The reason for this question is that out of the variables effecting strength, genetics is fixed. On the other hand, if its really rare to reach your genetic potential, most of us don't need to consider it. Wrist size or other.

I'm by no means an expert, but wouldn't someone's genetic potential be more of a sloping hill to climb and less of a wall? It's not like your genes dictate a 300lb bench is your max and it's easy going until you hit 300. You'd find it harder and harder to increase your bench until after many years of slowing gains you hit a point of near-total lack of progress on your bench a little shy of 300. This wouldn't happen if someone had the makeup to get them to 400, who would sail past 300 (relatively) easily as it's below their potential. It seems that it would affect your progress at all levels, not only when you're trying to get into seriously heavy weight.

Again not an expert on this, just thinking out loud.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Can anyone provide any halfway decent research so I can at least see where this crazy shit is coming from?

There isn't any, other than Dave Willoughby's measurements of the Mr. Americas wrists and other dimensions. It's a kind of meme that comes from bodybuilding size potential of parts and tape measurements of same. Plus a little bit of hardgainer whining that gets used as an excuse by some in that community for poor gains in strength.

[Tiburon]

Having tiny wrists is a blessing because your forearms will look so good once you work the deadlift

[synchronicity]

I'm by no means an expert, but wouldn't someone's genetic potential be more of a sloping hill to climb and less of a wall? It's not like your genes dictate a 300lb bench is your max and it's easy going until you hit 300. You'd find it harder and harder to increase your bench until after many years of slowing gains you hit a point of near-total lack of progress on your bench a little shy of 300. This wouldn't happen if someone had the makeup to get them to 400, who would sail past 300 (relatively) easily as it's below their potential. It seems that it would affect your progress at all levels, not only when you're trying to get into seriously heavy weight.

Again not an expert on this, just thinking out loud.

The charts Rip has in SS and PP reflect exactly this, and that's also reflected in Novice/Intermediate/Advanced training. As novices we're so far from our genetic potential that simply getting off our butts and lifting a barbell properly drives improvement (granted, part of that is also tied to learning how to do the movement properly for the first time ever). As we keep going it becomes progressively difficult for our bodies to adapt and improve, and that slope becomes less and less steep (10 lb jumps every session become 5, then 2.5). Eventually we shift to intermediate training and a weekly periodized schedule because we've progressed far enough that it takes longer than 72 hours to adapt to a stress sufficient to drive improvement, and progress will be 5 lbs/week max and decreasing from there. If someone commits fully to strength training (Oly or powerlifting) they will eventually go to an advanced schedule where the periods are 1-3 months at a time (maybe even more) and increases in PRs come in very small increments (and with lots more potential to over or under train and fail to hit one's potential)

I think of it like walking up a narrowing staircase on a dome. At first it's really wide and each step take you 6-8 inches higher. The steps get shorter and shorter and the staircase narrower and narrower until at the very top it looks like a ramp with a barely perceptible upward slant that narrows rapidly til you can barely keep your balance on it.