Partial Squats in Starr's workout

[kgreen06]

Hi Coach,

Received my copy of "The Strongest Shall Survive ..." from you yesterday (thank you for the prompt shipping!).

I found it interesting that one of the assistance exercises he recommends are quarter or half squats, with the notable caveat of it being used only by advanced athletes.

As I understand it, the idea is that you can load much more weight on the bar thus being able to put a larger load on the hip joint, which is beneficial even if it's not moving through a full ROM.

This got me thinking and I'm curious... Is there any benefit to loading the whole body in a standing position. Either completely static or perhaps walking the weight out and back.

E.G. say you can squat 405 below parallel. Perhaps you load 600 on the bar and do a few partial squats. Is there anything to gain by putting 700/750 on the bar, walking it out and just standing there for 30 seconds or so. Or, perhaps walking it out and back multiple times? Do you know of anybody using something like this as a stimulus for growth?

As a Novice, I understand the benefit of a full ROM and I have no plans of doing partial squats. I am wondering, though, if there's any benefit to putting an extra 50 pounds on the bar at the end of my 3 x 5, maybe once a week and just walking it out and standing with it.

Does just putting the entire skeletal/muscular/nervous system under a large load, even if it's static induce any beneficial growth? And if so, any benefit for a Novice?

Thanks!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Heavy walkouts have been used for decades to dis-inhibit the feeling of "heavy" for a competitive lifter. They may be of use -- obviously much lighter weights -- for the frail elderly, in that they require balance with the load and they produce skeletal compression/bone densification. But I see no reason for a novice or intermediate lifter to do either high partials or heavy walkouts.

[Mutant]

Did you ever find that partial squats helped your lifts, Mark? I understand the supramaximum loads and limited ROM make them hard on joints but advanced strength athletes may find them useful for short periods depending on their needs. I think that they may be a little more useful for gaited athletes where the joint angles correspond to their gaits. Do you coach any sprinters, jumpers, or throwers at WFAC?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Partial squats never helped my squat, and they kept my knees and hips inflamed. Why do you people all seem to think that your strength training movements must mimic sport-specific movements? Have you learned nothing from this board?

[Kyle Schuant]

I know lots of guys in my gym who always do heavy (for them) partial squats. All of them have back, hip or knee injuries, most commonly back injuries. The injuries came after the partials, by they way. I have a simple theory - if it's too much for your legs, it's too much for your back.

The guys who do the heavy (for them) partial squats never progress the resistance, either.

Get injured, never get stronger. Not a great argument for them, from what I've seen. I suppose it might be okay to do it occasionally, but I wouldn't like to see it done all the time. I'd let others speak of the usefulness of doing them occasionally, I've only seen them done always by the individuals.

[Mutant]

Partial squats never helped my squat, and they kept my knees and hips inflamed. Why do you people all seem to think that your strength training movements must mimic sport-specific movements? Have you learned nothing from this board?

I think we can all learn something, Mark. I can't speak for others here, but I can speak for the success of this method. Specific strength training is supported by the science and practice of national teams and elite international competition. A good example is the hammer throw. Before specialized strength training, the record was 50-some meters. Now we have athletes throwing 80-some meters. It is the method developed and widely employed by the USSR and Soviet states. It has resulted in incredible international success at world championships, olympic games, and world record progressions. It's worth mentioning that all of this came about around the same time that the USA faded from relevance on the international weightlifting scene. It is unfortunate that this information is more more widely disseminated in the West. Much of the scholarship is not translated into English, either at all, or very well. I hope that you can put aside our cultural and ideological differences, Mark. In the spirit of brotherhood, we may communicate and exchange ideas.

I don't mean to get in an argument with you. I was simply asking what methods you've used to trained sprinters/jumpers/throwers. I think that this forum and your books may be the best place for a novice to start out. Even if athletes choose divergent paths later on, the basics you have laid out here provide a solid foundation for safely training at higher levels of competition.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I remember your interest in zero gravity strength training applications, I assume this was your line of approach... how would balance/proprioception be achieved without gravity?

If we're SUDDENLY talking about outer space, we're no longer addressing the OP.

I think we can all learn something, Mark. I can't speak for others here, but I can speak for the success of this method. Specific strength training is supported by the science and practice of national teams and elite international competition.

The success of elite athletes is largely determined by their genetics. The success of teams at this level is almost entirely dependent on their ability to recruit these people.

A good example is the hammer throw. Before specialized strength training, the record was 50-some meters. Now we have athletes throwing 80-some meters.

So you think the world put 30 meters on the hammer throw by doing partial squats?

I don't mean to get in an argument with you. I was simply asking what methods you've used to trained sprinters/jumpers/throwers.

I don't train track athletes. I train novices for strength. My point is that if elite coaches are training track athletes for strength using partial squats, then they aren't training track athletes for strength either.

[Immortal_k]

Coach, Mutant is another alias for First Class, which is Eugene. It's just a troll.

[Peoria]

I think we can all learn something, Mark. I can't speak for others here, but I can speak for the success of this method. Specific strength training is supported by the science and practice of national teams and elite international competition.

This has all the hallmarks of yet another sneak attack on the coach's bona fides by a Pendlay acolyte. If the OP mentions the S bar bath in his next post, that'll be a sure giveaway.

[PKKamboj]

In regard to just walking out a heavy bar load, early last summer when my brother started me on the program I had trouble keeping my elbows up because i thought the weight was "too heavy". So he used to load up the bar heavier than my work set and I would just stand there. Over time I stopped doing this but my bar path, hip drive, and lower back tightness all improved. Also mentally I wasn't afraid of the weight anymore.