Starting Strength Channel: Podcast 3

[steven-miller]

Rip, I think you're at your best when speaking on the more practical side of things. The forces within the body during a deadlift? It wouldn't even occur to most people. I think perhaps a lot of this sort of talk comes from spending years on the internet, dealing with pedantic wankers who never lift - trying to anticipate their bullshit arguments before they make them.

The 365lb squat guy becoming a 550lb squat guy is a better approach, practical examples. And more lean mass means better resistance to illness, that sort of thing. That and exercise description etc is where you really shine.

I think that Rip covers both sides very well and it would, in my opinion, be unfortunate if we could only see one of those sides in the future. In fact I would argue that the information provided through his website/books/pod-casts/etc. distinguishes itself by a unique synthesis of real world experience / practical application AND analytics. You do not get this information anywhere else because most entities concerned with this topic are not nearly pedantic enough to provide analysis at the level of detail we are accustomed to here. Of those entities that may be motivated to provide such in-depth and high quality information about barbell training, its biomechanics and so on and so forth, hardly anybody has an equivalent amount of practical experience to put things into perspective.
Now, you have a point in that one may be able to win over a large percentage of people by just providing practical examples and observations. This is what most in this field are already doing and this may be the primary reason why that is the case. But for every example there are counter examples and the only way to make sense of all this is to look at what is actually going on. Without the analysis you can never make a compelling argument and move forward by continually refining both your application and your theory and letting both worlds inform each other.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I'll confess to having at least one of my failures being late onset vanity. When I pulled 425 last December, Dearly Beloved took a video frame shot and blew it up to an 8 by 10 glossy. I keep that on my desk at work and it has elicited quite a bit of comment from all ages when they stop by. Since then I brought in the 1st place medal I took in the April meet this year and set that next to the photo for a week or so. So far 3 guys well over 30 have started lifting again, with one guy in his mid-50's. In fact some of them even asked about lifting tips.

It's a kind of proselytizing without carrying a sign proclaiming "Osteopenia is Near!"

[Mark Rippetoe]

Hurling motivation is a load that some people can't lift. Coaching is one thing but if you can motivate people to at least have ago your more than half way there. Your lead by example is all some folk need and thats a good start.

Commas, wal. Learn to use them.

[wal]

I will try and improve, thanks.

[wal]

Hurling, I reckon coaching is 90% motivation and 10% technique, you already qualify for the 90%. Perhaps the Starting Strength folk might have an honorary doctorate for folk such as your self. Don't worry about Osteopenia, just eat more dirt.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Hurling, I reckon coaching is 90% motivation and 10% technique, you already qualify for the 90%. Perhaps the Starting Strength folk might have an honorary doctorate for folk such as your self. Don't worry about Osteopenia, just eat more dirt.

Without the underlying knowledge of the (or at least A) standard of performance to coach someone to, I think the coach is doing the person they are coaching a disservice and really just exercising their own ego. Or their dick as the case might be in some instances. So you have to factor that in. I don't want to be tiresome on this subject, but I couldn't help teach jujitsu to the other lower ranks without not only knowing the techniques but having practiced them a lot and learned along the way that one size does not fit all possible people you might be teaching.

I think at this point I have the squat, deadlift, and bench press down fairly well. The press less so, and part of it involves old inflexible shoulders. The power snatch? Hell, I'm not sure. I'm better at it having never tried it before last year, so that's a net improvement. Whether to standard or not would take some review by a certified SS coach or another seminar. I'll never be able to perform the power clean to the standard because my wrists just won't flex that far back to rack properly. So I am under no illusions about the likelihood of meeting the performance standard on all the lifts. Whether I could answer the essay questions adequately also remains to be seen. But that's moot absent performing to standard. I further have no expectations of some lesser degree of certification. Standards are standards and watering them down even for the sincere and dedicated ill behooves the developer and keeper of the standard. At least if they want to retain any credibility. Life is hard and you don't always manage to achieve everything you might want to. So be it, but then we'll see.

The motivation part is tricky. My own take on it is that you can work through example and living the behaviors you believe in or want to promote. Then comes keeping the (even if only temporarily) convicted person on track to achieve and improve. I'm not a yeller except under extreme circumstances that are not encountered in a training environment. So that leaves example, patience, humor, and reason as my own primary go-to's to keep the other(s) engaged and striving. You have to match yourself to the person and their personality being taught or coached when it's something physical. I have learned that there are some few that I'd never be able to do that with. It's a failing I'm willing to accept to avoid twisting my own self too far out of shape to accommodate all possibilities.

So anyway, I eat plenty of dirt already at work.

I want to add to this that until I had taken the time to try to read and understand the lifting models in SS:3 and then see them demonstrated and then further being coached into position to execute them to the best of my ability, I didn't really understand movement, effort, and strength. Oh, I knew where and what the muscles were called and frankly a lot of hooey I had picked up over the years about weight training. But it was glossy and superficial. Understanding movement better has made a big difference in the way I think and teach jujitsu now. The concept of moment arm alone was a huge eye opener into something I thought of in a different way regarding the application strength.

[Kregna]

I was speaking with someone at work today about this podcast and how you talked about strength stopping older people from falling. A lady I work with asked what the heck I was talking about and that strength doesn't stop old people falling over because old people fall over because they have things wrong with them, like Parkinson's.

To clarify, so that I can argue the case, are strength helps avoid falling over because the individual is better able to resist losing balance? Can falls also be caused by things like delayed reaction times?

And I'm also bearing in mind that quote about not teaching pigs to sing in one of your books

I enjoyed it.

Though most of it I am familiar with there was something new for me - relation of muscle mass to the functioning of the immune system. I knew stronger people got sick less and when we got sick its not as bad as it could be. But I know this from experience not from reading anything on it. Can someone go into more details on the actual relation between the two?

Google has given me some info but I trust this board a bit more than random Google searches.

I'd also be interested in learning more about why muscle mass helps stave off illness

[Mark Rippetoe]

Muscle mass "houses" and manufactures many immune system components. The more, the better.

[Sean Herbison]

Hurling, I reckon coaching is 90% motivation and 10% technique, you already qualify for the 90%.

As much as I approve of MEH leading by example, I have to take issue with this wording. You can be a good workout partner, example, friend, role-model, etc. without much in the way of technique. What you can't be is a good coach.

This isn't to say that all coaches must be able to perfectly, or even adequately, execute the movement patterns. It helps, but it's not necessary. What is necessary is an understanding of both the theory and practice, and being able to explain it to the person you're coaching. If you don't have this technique aspect, you can't be a good lifting coach, regardless of how motivating you are.

[Sean Herbison]

To clarify, so that I can argue the case, are strength helps avoid falling over because the individual is better able to resist losing balance? Can falls also be caused by things like delayed reaction times?

Here's another aspect to consider. What happens when people lose their balance? They try to correct, of course. Generally this involves putting most or all of your weight on one leg. Now, if that leg is barely strong enough to hold you up when you're standing on both feet, how well will it fare now?

Even if your balance per se doesn't improve, your ability to recover from being off balance will.